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GNSO Council Teleconference Minutes

Last Updated:
Date
16 October 2008

Proposed agenda and documents

List of attendees:
Philip Sheppard - Commercial & Business Users C
Mike Rodenbaugh - Commercial & Business Users C. absent, apologies
Zahid Jamil - Commercial & Business Users C.
Greg Ruth - ISCPC
Antonio Harris - ISCPC
Tony Holmes - ISCPC
Thomas Keller- Registrars - absent, apologies
Tim Ruiz - Registrars
Adrian Kinderis - Registrars
Chuck Gomes - gTLD registries
Edmon Chung - gTLD registries
Jordi Iparraguirre - gTLD registries - absent, apologies
Kristina Rosette - Intellectual Property Interests C
Ute Decker - Intellectual Property Interests C
Cyril Chua - Intellectual Property Interests C
Robin Gross - NCUC
Norbert Klein - NCUC
Carlos Souza - NCUC
Olga Cavalli- Nominating Committee appointee
Jon Bing - Nominating Committee appointee
Avri Doria - Nominating Committee appointee

Council Members
( Votes - quorum)

ICANN Staff

Denise Michel - Vice President, Policy Development
Kurt Pritz - Senior Vice President Services
Robert Hoggarth - Senior Policy Director
Liz Gasster - Senior Policy Officer
Olof Nordling - Director Services Relations
Marika Konings - Policy Director
Craig Schwartz - Chief gTLD Registry Liaison
Patrick Jones - Registry Liaison Manager
Ken Bour - Policy consultant
Glen de Saint G�ry - GNSO Secretariat

GNSO Council Liaisons
Suzanne Sene - GAC Liaison - absent
Alan Greenberg - ALAC Liaison - absent, apologies

Rita Rodin - ICANN Board member - absent
Bruce Tonkin - ICANN Board member - absent apologies

Invited Guest:
Terry Davis - Nominating Committee Appointee (after the AGM in Cairo)

MP3 Recording

Avri Doria chaired the meeting.

Roll Call.

Item 1: Update any Statements of Interest
Kristina Rosette
provided an updated statement of interest

Item 2: Review/amend the agenda
Moved SSAC from Item 6: Status updates to Item 10: AOB
Added discussion of RTP Denial Reasons PDP Board Recommendation Amendment to Item 10: AOB and moved voting to Item 4
Moved Item 7 to before Item 6 Status Updates

Item 3: Approve GNSO Council minutes of 4 September 2008 .

Chuck Gomes, seconded by Olga Cavalli moved the adoption of the GNSO Council minutes of 4 September 2008.

Motion passed
Tony Holmes abstained because he was not present at the meeting. .
Decision 1: The Council approved the GNSO Council minutes of 4 September 2008.

Item 4. Added discussion of RTP Denial Reasons PDP Board Recommendation Amendment

Olof Nordling gave a brief overview saying that following the September 4, 2008 GNSO Council meeting, there were two proposals to change the text of denial reasons 8 & 9. The outcome was resubmitted for public comment and the only comment received demonstarted that one of the provisions for denial reason 9 could be misinterpreted. Discussion followed on the working group list which indicated support for deleting specific words. Council's consideration on the amendment to the resolution is necessary before the proposal is submitted to the ICANN Board at the Cairo meeting.

Clarification was provided that item 1 in the motion provides the language in the existing policy (not the previously approved wording change) and item 2 the latest proposed wording recommended to the Board.

Avri Doria noted that since the motion is a recommendation for the ICANN Board's consideration, a roll call vote and absentee voting procedure will be followed and the absentee ballots should be completed within 24 hours of the end of the meeting.

Motion on Amendment to the Council Resolution on the Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy (IRTP) Denial Definitions Policy Development Process (PDP) moved by Chuck Gomes and seconded by Avri Doria

Whereas:

* On 4 September 2008, the GNSO Council adopted a Recommendation concluding a Policy Development Process (PDP) to clarify four of the nine transfer denial reasons enumerated in the Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy;

* The ensuing public comment period rendered a comment identifying a possibility to misinterpret a part of the proposed text for Denial Reason #9, notably the words "or transfer to the Registrar of Record";

* The GNSO Council, in consultation with members of the drafting group for this PDP, has found it appropriate to delete these words from the proposed text for Denial Reason #9;

Resolved:

1. That Denial reason #9 in which the current text reads:

A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to be determined) after being transferred (apart from being transferred back to the original Registrar in cases where both Registrars so agree and/or where a decision in the dispute resolution process so directs).

Be amended to read:

A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to be determined) after being transferred (apart from being transferred back to the original Registrar in cases where both Registrars so agree and/or where a decision in the dispute resolution process so directs). "Transferred" shall only mean that an inter-registrar transfer has occurred in accordance with the procedures of this policy.

The motion passed and the total vote count, after the absentee voting is closed, will be submitted to the Council mailing list

18 Votes in favour:
Philip Sheppard, Zahid Jamil, Ute Decker, Kristina Rosette, Tony Holmes, Greg Ruth, Robin Gross, Carlos Souza, Avri Doria, Olga Cavalli (one vote each) Adrian Kinderis, Tim Ruiz, Chuck Gomes, Edmon Chung (two votes each)

Item 5: ICANN Geographic Regions

The Commercial and Business Users, the Intellectual Property Interests, the Internet Service and Connectivity Providers, the Non Commercial Users and the Registrars constituencies had no comments on the ICANN Geographic Regions drafting group report and supported the report.
The Registry constituency supported the report, but noted that the constituency discussed principle 4 ( "Geographic requirements relevant to membership of ICANN bodies should be measured by citizenship") and proposed that the GNSO representatives on the community wide working group, when formed, solicit advice on how domicile and citizenship could be combined as a measurement.

Olga Cavalli, seconded by Tim Ruiz and Chuck Gomes, moved the motion on Geographic Regions (carried forward from 25 September)

Whereas:

In its meeting on 2 November 2007 the ICANN Board approved resolution 07.92 requesting "that the ICANN community, including the GNSO, ccNSO, ASO, GAC, and ALAC, provide the ICANN Staff with input on the ccNSO Council's resolution relating to ICANN's Geographic Regions"

In an email to the GNSO Council dated 15 July 2008 Denise Michel requested the GNSO "provide input, if any, on the suggested formation of a community wide working group, and its mandate"

In its meeting on 17 July 2008 the GNSO Council agreed to form a drafting team in response to the ICANN Board request on ICANN Geographic Regions The drafting team submitted its recommendations for GNSO comments to the GNSO Council on 26 July 2008

In the 4 September 2008 Council meeting Council representatives were asked to forward the recommendations to their respective constituencies for discussion and comment as applicable and be prepared to finalize the GNSO comments in the Council meeting on 25 September 2008

The Council reviewed the GNSO Comments in its meeting on 16 October 2008.

Resolve:

The GNSO Council approves the proposed GNSO comments.

The Council Chair is asked to submit the GNSO comments to the Board.

The motion passed unanimously by voice vote

Item 6: Discussion on ccNSO liaison

Avri Doria referred to the email from Chris Disspain, the ccNSO chair formally requesting the exchange of liaisons.

The implications of "equal footing as members of the Council" was the language used by the ccNSO chair and with regard to the travel policy, liaisons would be funded by their sending organisation.

Avri Doria, seconded by Adrian Kinderis, moved the motion

Whereas:

The GNSO has decided in the past on its interest in exchanging a liaison with the ccNSO and has communicated this interest to the chair of the ccNSO, and Initial discussions were held in Paris during the joint meeting between the GNSO and the ccNSO on the exchange of liaisons between the GNSO council and the ccNSO council
The GNSO in earlier discussions had approved the idea in principle of exchanging liaisons, and the Chair of the ccNSO sent a formal note to the GNSO chair indicating that the ccNSO Council was interested in an exchange of observers.

Resolve:

The Chair of the GNSO send the following to the chair of the ccNSO:

Dear Chris,

On behalf of the GNSO council, I thank you for your note on behalf of the ccNSO council regarding the exchange of observers. The GNSO council reiterates its interest in cooperation on issues of mutual interest and in the ongoing exchange of information between the GNSO and the ccNSO.
The GNSO council is in agreement with an exchange of observers on the basis you proposed. Specifically: "Both the GNSO observer to the ccNSO Council and the ccNSO Observer to the GNSO Council shall not be considered a member of or entitled to vote on the Council, but otherwise shall be entitled to participate on equal footing with members of the Councils."

The GNSO council will select a representative shortly and welcomes the participation of the representative to be selected by the ccNSO council. I will notify you and the ccNSO secretariat once the GNSO council has completed its selection process.
Best Regards,

The motion passed unanimously by voice vote.

Selection criteria and process were discussed. Views were expressed in favour of a Council member being the liaison who would be up to date with the Council deliberations, speak with authority and be available to bring the liaison content to every meeting, with emphasis on communication rather than representation.

In the new philosophy of the Council, which attempts to spread work among a wider range of participants, non Council members should be considered while at the same time they should be experienced in ccNSO affairs.
A non council member, could be an observer on the Council, and be informed by regular consultations with the Chair, vice chair and councillors and the MP3 recordings.

There should be sufficient flexibility for either a councillor or non council member to be chosen.
Physical attendance at face to face meetings were considered the most likely occasions for the representatives to experience schedule conflicts.

Avri Doria summarised that the selection procedure before Council for a liaison to the ccNSO Council could be either a Council member or a member of the broader GNSO community and the vote could be taken in an open meeting or could follow the full voting procedure by secret ballot.

Liz Gasster was requested to enquire what time commitment the role of laiason would entail.
A response was received during the meeting which indicated that the estimated time was one hour a month for the ccNSO Council meeting and the ccNSO as a group, met for 2 days during ICANN meetings.

Avri Doria suggested that anyone interested in the position should send the chair an email. If only one person volunteered, a discussion on the mailing list would be sufficient to approve the candidate, but if there was more than one, there would be a vote by secret ballot.

Item 7: GNSO Improvements Implementation Plan

7.1 Update on Board decisions regarding restructuring

Denise Michel referred to an email sent to the Council list on 15 October 2008 outlining the follow-up action items from the ICANN Board's draft GNSO Restructuring Resolution

Denise provided an important clarification with regard to the Council Restructuring Implementation Plan that the Board referred to, which includes the basic actions and timelines of achieving the full transition to the new bicameral voting structure and should not be confused with the GNSO Council's GNSO Improvements Implementation Plan which refers to the proposed GNSO structure that will be created to commence the work on the overall implementation improvement report.

Denise further explained that a 'constituency' is defined in the ICANN bylaws and the four stakeholder groups indicated by the Board are comprised of constituencies. Currently on the contracted party side, there is a Registry constituency that will be the full Registry stakeholder group and the same applies for the Registrars. On the non contracted party side, the commercial and noncommercial stakeholder groups, will serve as umbrella entities for constituencies within each group. The Non Commercial User Constituency is currently a constituency and not a stakeholder group and the same holds for the constituencies in the commercial sector.

Additional work, discussion and proposals need to occur to define in detail how the stakeholder groups will be structured, the processes and procedures that will be used, and their relation to the constituencies.
Council seats will not be tied to constituencies and each stakeholder group, as part of their stakeholder group proposal to be submitted to the Board, would presumably include their plan and process for populating the Council seats.

Chuck Gomes commented that the Registry constituency foresaw the possibility that there could be other registry constituencies in the Registries stakeholder group.

Proposed motions:

Discussion on the proposed amendment pointed out that the amendment added additional burden on the steering groups because bringing people late into a process could delay rather than expedite the outcome, with the added uncertainty that the new constituency was not yet approved. So while such participants could be observers, they should not be formalised in terms of the process.

Further clarification was provided on the role of the OSC which is the group determining the conditions, rules and structure under which a constituency operates and where open participation is important. The role of the Policy Process Steering Committee (PPSC) on the other hand is to define the working group structure and the policy development process.
The intent is that all the details, such as the development of constituency criteria, in response to the Board’s recommendation will happen at the working team level rather than at the steering committee, and it will flow up to the Council through the steering committee and the steering committee could actually send it back to the working team.

Zahid Jamil drew attention to language that had been omitted in the Operations steering committee (OSC) charter relating to membership
"representatives from each constituency (need not be a Council member)
Staff committed to revising the document.

Avri Doria, seconded by Chuck Gomes, proposed a motion on amending the GNSO Improvement Plan - Membership in Operational Steering Committee

1. In the section "Members in the PPSC" on page 9 of the GNSO Improvements Plan
modify

Unless otherwise determined by the PPSC members, committee decisions will be made using a "full consensus" process.
to

Unless otherwise determined by the PPSC members, committee decisions will be made using a "full consensus of the members" process.

2. In the section "Members in the OSC" on page 12 of the GNSO Improvements Plan
modify

Unless otherwise determined by the OSC members, committee decisions will be made using a "full consensus" process.

to

Unless otherwise determined by the OSC members, committee decisions will be made using a "full consensus of the members" process.

3. In the section "Other Participants in the OSC" on page 12, of the GNSO Improvements Plan

add:

- 1 representative from any constituencies-in-formation formally involved in the process of applying for inclusion in one of the GNSO Stakeholder groups. The definition of the new constituency process should include the requirements that need to be met to achieve this status.

The motion did not pass
9 votes in favour: Ute Decker, Cyril Chua, Carlos Souza, Avri Doria, Olga Cavalli (one vote each)
Edmon Chung, Chuck Gomes (two votes each)

9 votes against: Philip Shepard, Zahid Jamil, Tony Holmes, Tony Harris, Greg Ruth, Robin Gross, Norbert Klein (one vote each)
Tim Ruiz (two votes)

Chuck Gomes, seconded by Avri Doria, moved the motion on the GNSO Improvements Implementation Plan

Whereas:

The ICANN Board in resolution 2008.02.15.03 directed the ICANN Staff to "draft a detailed implementation plan in consultation with the GNSO".

Such a plan was developed by the Planning Team composed of staff and GNSO members working jointly and in cooperation

The ICANN board in resolution 2008.06.26.13 endorsed the recommendations of the Board Governance Committee's GNSO Review Working Group

The ICANN board in its meeting on 1 October 2008 approved resolutions 6 through 15 relating to the recommendations of the Board Governance Committee GNSO Working Group and the specific topic of GNSO Council Restructuring,

Resolved:

The GNSO will develop a plan for GNSO Council restructuring implementation that is separate and distinct from the GNSO Improvements Implementation Plan as directed in resolution 2008.10.01.15

The GNSO Council approves the Framework defined in the GNSO Improvements Implementation Plan dated 24 September 2008 as prepared by the GNSO Improvements Planning Team as documented in the GNSO Improvements Implementation Plan (as updated)

The GNSO Council requests that constituencies, NomCom appointees, the ALAC and the GAC identify representatives to serve in the two Standing Committees as defined in the Plan by 24 October 2008 if possible, but not later than 31 October

Kickoff meetings of the Steering Committees be held during the ICANN meetings in Cairo (1-7 November 2008) with teleconference capability for any who may not be able to attend in-person.

Passed unanimously by voice vote

Action Items arising from the motion:

1. The GNSO Council requests that constituencies, NomCom appointees, the ALAC and the GAC identify representatives to serve in the two Standing Committees as defined in the Plan by 24 October 2008 if possible, but not later than 31 October

2. Kickoff meetings of the Steering Committees will be planned during the ICANN meetings in Cairo (1-7 November 2008) with teleconference capability for any who may not be able to attend in-person.

Item 8: Updates

8.1 Board Update

Denise Michel gave an overview of the Board's actions at the meeting held on 1 October 2008

The ICANN Board approved the Director's Code of Conduct that was previously posted for public comment, a de-accredited registrar transition procedure and directed Staff to periodically re-evaluate its effectiveness as the registrar marketplace evolves and make modifications to the procedure as appropriate. The Board granted financial approval of the contractor agreement for Multiple Language Algorithms relating to New gTLD Program Implementation, as well as IT Equipment Purchase.
The Board approved the Terms of Reference, Request for Proposals, and Working Group Charter of the Board Governance Committee's Recommendation for ICANN Security and Stability Advisory Committee (SSAC) Review.
The Board approved an independent review contractor for the Board Governance Committee's Recommendation for ICANN's Root Server System Advisory Committee (RSSAC) Review and the work will likely commence during the Cairo meetings.
The Board deferred action on Single-Character Name Requests from DotCoop and dotMobi and authorised travel expenses for Board Members appointed to the President's Strategy Committee.

8.2 Fast Flux PDP WG
Avri Doria reported that Mike O'Connor had resigned as chair and after consultation with working group members, the past chair, staff and the Council liaison to the working group, agreed to act as temporary chair to complete the working group document so as to obtain an accurate snapshot of the discussions and levels of support on the various statements which would then be submitted with recommendations to the Council. This does not include issues regarding the charter which will be revisited when the report is complete. If the group continues to operate after the report is finished the group should consider electing a chair as soon as possible.

Action Item
The Council directed a neutral Policy staff member, not involved in the working group, to follow up with the past chair and working group members and collect information on the nature of the work that could serve as a learning experience and be useful as guidance to the newly formed steering committees.

8.3 Inter-Registrar Transfer Policy Part A PDP
Avri Doria reported in the absence of the IRTP Council liaison, that the IRTP meeting on 14 October was cancelled as most participants were attending the Anti-Phising Working Group Annual Meeting so there were no further updates to the draft initial report, which is expected to be circulated by the working group on Friday 17 October 2008.

8.4 New gTLDs
Kurt Pritz noted that the draft Applicant Guidebook for New gTLDs would soon be posted on the ICANN website as well as series of explanatory papers that would coincide with the publication of the draft RFP.

Several new gTLD sessions are planned in Cairo, starting with the GNSO Working group sessions on Saturday and Sunday, 1 and 2 November 2008

8.5 Fast Track
Avri Doria noted that the Requests For Information, were being received and the information will be released later.

8.6 Add Grace Policy ( AGP)
Craig Schwartz reported that the draft Add Grace Policy (AGP) implementation plan was circulated last week to the registry and registrar constituencies and is expected to be posted for public comment early in the week starting on 20 October 2008.

8.7 Cairo Travel Fund
The Secretariat noted that Council passed a motion 20080904-5 on September 4, 2008,

"3. That the two GNSO council members, Ute Decker and Greg Ruth, who are also members of the Nominating Committee will receive transportation for the meeting and expenses starting Thursday of ICANN week as members of the NomCom and that the balance of their expenses will be covered, as the per-diem rate defined by the Travel Policy, from the DNSO/GNSO funds.
The GNSO Secretariat is authorized to cover those expenses from the old DNSO/GNO budget."

Stacy Hoffberg, the meeting planner, advised the Secretariat that the per diem rate is $80 and the hotel room rate is $250 per night.
The proposed amount to be spent on partial support for 2 Council members, Ute Decker and Greg Ruth, who are also Nominating Committee Delegates, to attend the Cairo meetings is thus:
-- Per diem rate $80 x 6 days, (Friday 31 October to Wednesday 5 November 2008) = $480 x 2 =$960
-- Hotel accommodation x 6 days,( Friday 31 October to Wednesday 5 November 2008) 250$ x 6 nights = 1500 x 2 = $3000
Total amount $3960 to come out of the $19.964 DNSO/GNSO funds.
DNSO/GNSO Funds Remaining amount = $16.004

8.8 Action Items
Avri Doria
reminded Council of the action items from the meeting on 25 September 2008.

- Pending is the formation of the Operational (OSC) and Policy Process (PPSC) Steering committees that will have kickoff meetings in Cairo.

- The Travel drafting team to develop a proposal for consideration by Council had its first meeting on 15 October 2008.

- Constituencies were asked to distribute the WHOIS hypotheses study group recommendations to their members and input will be collected during Item 9 of the current agenda.

8.8 Front Running
Confidential

Item 9 Whois Hypotheses Study Group

Chuck Gomes reported that the Registry Constituency is undertaking a detailed analytical approach to the hypotheses and anticipates submitting to the Council list on 29 October 2008 a detailed set of recommendations for deciding which studies to perform.

Liz Gasster reported that the staff forwarded the request to both the GAC and the ALAC.
The ALAC has approved a statement on the studies as of 14 October and the link will be distributed to the Council list.
The GAC responded that their recommendation on 16 April 2008 characterized their view of the procedure for the studies.

Avri Doria noted that considerable time will be devoted to the issue in Cairo, both during the GNSO Working sessions on Saturday 1 and Sunday 2 November and at the Open GNSO Council meeting on Wednesay 5 November 2008.

Item 10: Planning for Cairo

Avri Doria commented that the availablity of certain participants had to be confirmed.

Provisional Agendas
Saturday 1 November 2008:

- Board working group on the ALAC review.
- Whois
- New gTLD Implementation

Sunday 2 November 2008

- GNSO improvements restructuring - brief joint meeting of council and members of the two Steering committees Operational steering Committee (OSC) and Policy Process steering Committee (PPSC) separate but parallel meetings to include electing chairs for each group
- Discussion with SSAC on various topics
--- WHOIS
--- Fast Flux
--- Other topics

- IRTP Discussion
- GAC and Board meeting prep

- GAC/ GNSO Joint meeting one hour
--- WHOIS
--- PSC Presidents Strategy Committee
--- New gTLD and IDN ccTLD implementation

- Board/GNSO/Staff dinner
--- GNSO Restructuring
--- Treatment of geographic names and new gTLD process.

A request was made to spend a substantial amount of time on new gTLDS

Monday 3 November 2008
Open Joint Session (GNSO, ccNSO, GAC, ALAC) - the program is still under discussion

Joint ccNSO/GNSO Council lunch meeting

Wednesday 5 November
Open GNSO Council meeting

- GNSO Improvements and Restructuring
- WHOIS decision on studies
- discussion and feedback on gTLD planning- open microphone

Concern was expressed regarding wordsmithing and voting in the public meeting.

There was general agreement that if a motion required minor wordsmithing, it could be done during the open meeting, but if there were substantial changes to be made, staff would be asked to assist the councillors with the apppropriate wording during a pause in the meeting so that the motion could be put to the vote thereafter.

Thursday 6 November
Open Joint Session (GNSO, ccNSO, GAC, ALAC)
- reporting back

GNSO Council wrap-up meeting in the afternoon
- reviewing input
- planning ahead

Item 10: Any Other Business

10.1 SSAC - Request regarding Whois

Liz Gasster referred to three SSAC documents on WHOIS relating to the recommendations that the Council and the community consider migration to a registry or active directory service to replace the current structure of WHOIS.

The three documents referred to are the SSAC report in February, SSAC 27., the SSAC report 20 June, SSAC 33. and an email communication from Steve Crocker sent to the Council on 19 May 2008

While more policy work is needed, a secure and reliable WHOIS can only be achieved through a combination of policy development and implementation of a standard, uniform directory service that provides authentication, confidentiality, accuracy and integrity services, and the reports cite the development of the Internet Registry Information Service (IRIS) protocol by the CRISP Working Group.

Essentially the concerns identified are the need to establish requirements for the administration of registration information, which according to the SSAC, requires studies on the uses and abuses of registration information, access requirements, role-based access control models for WHOIS, the need for greater accuracy and recommends that the ICANN community should adopt an Internet standard directory service, urges the study of various protocols and encourages ICANN to work with all TLD operators to develop a timeline and transition plan to move to a successor service.

The second SSAC report 20 June, SSAC 33 enumerates the ways in which WHOIS is used today, identifies and explains the typical features of directory service applications. Each database entry is given a unique identity at its root and a defined data schema for each element of data with an authentication framework that allows for strong authentication means, the ability for auditing processes to ensure that data is not lost, altered or corrupted in terms of accuracy, and monitoring of availability and outages.
The report makes no specific recommendations, but urges further discussion about the need to adopt an Internet standard directory service, and to study the work of the CRISP WG and the Internet Registry Information Service (IRIS) protocol, which, the SSAC notes, may provide sufficient features to replace the current WHOIS.

IDNs and WHOIS are not addressed in the report but it is suggested that aspects of the active directory model may provide some flexibility or options with regard to the display of contact information in non-ASCII characters.

The issue is not the IDN domain name label itself that is stored in WHOIS, there is a standard for the display of the IDN label. The issue is the viewing aspect that is dependent on how local registrars and registries choose to create the user interface which could be available in all character sets, in some character sets, or only in ASCII.
Currently there is no standard protocol, so as the volume of IDN registrations increase there could be a limit to those who have the ability to read and verify the accuracy of the contact information.

10.2
Tim Ruiz raised a concern about certain registries that have submitted plans for the release of single-character domain names through the registry service funnel process which appears to have been suspended, and enquired whether this was a policy issue that Council should examine.

Action Item:

Avri Doria suggested adding the topic to the Cairo Open Council meeting agenda.

Avri Doria adjourned the GNSO Council meeting and thanked everyone for their participation.

The meeting ended at 14:23 UTC.

Next GNSO Council Meeting will be in Cairo on 5 November 2008 at 06:00 UTC.
see: Calendar