WHOIS Task Forces 1 2 3
14 July 2005 - Minutes
Combined task force members
Jordyn Buchanan - Co-Chair
Registrars constituency - Paul Stahura
Registrars constituency - Tim Ruiz
Registrars constituency - Tom Keller
Registrars constituency - Ross Rader
Commercial and Business Users constituency - Marilyn Cade
Commercial and Business Users constituency - David Fares
Internet Service and Connectivity Providers constituency - Greg Ruth
Internet Service and Connectivity Providers constituency: - Antonio Harris
Internet Service and Connectivity Providers constituency - Maggie Mansourkia
Non Commercial Users Constituency - Milton Mueller
Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Niklas Lagergren
At-Large Advisory Committee (ALAC) liaisons - Bret Fausett
Bruce Tonkin GNSO Council chair
Bruce Tonkin GNSO Council chair
Commercial and Business Users constituency - Grant Forsyth
Internet Service and Connectivity Providers constituency - Tony Holmes
gTLD Registries constituency - Philip Colebrook
Non Commercial Users Constituency - Robin Gross
Non Commercial Users Constituency - Norbert Klein
Thomas Roessler - W3C - Security Analyst (previous ALAC liaison)
Nominating committee proposed appointee - Avri Doria
Geir Rasmussen - CEO Global Name Registry
Olof Nordling - Manager of Policy Development Coordination
Maria Farrell Farrell - GNSO Policy Officer
Liz Williams - Senior Policy Officer
GNSO Secretariat - Glen de Saint Géry
Commercial and Business Users constituency - Philip Sheppard - apologies
Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Steve Metalitz - absent - apologies
Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Kiyoshi Tsuru - apologies
Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Lucy Nichols - apologies, tried to join by phone
gTLD Registries constituency - David Maher - absent - apologies
gTLD Registries constituency - Ken Stubbs - absent - apologies
Non Commercial Users Constituency - Marc Schneiders - apologies
Non Commercial Users Constituency - Kathy Kleiman - apologies
Nominating committee appointee - Maureen Cubberley - apologies
Nominating committee appointee - Alick Wilson - apologies
Suzanne Sene GAC Liaison to GNSO Council -absent - apologies
Bruce Tonkin – Started out by commenting that there seemed to be confusion on understanding the purpose and concept of Whois, and the data elements and access to the data. There was a need to distinguish between what data was useful. Public documents were different – e.g. White Pages – in terms of decision tree, first find out what was the meaning of the different data collected and what was it used for – e.g. technical and administrative contacts. If there was to be an opt out, then there is a need to distinguish information types and how, for example law enforcement agents can access it. Not changing the terms of reference but trying to clarify them.
Jordyn Buchanan emphasised that the types of data collected had been clarified. "we know what data we’re collecting, but we’re trying to figure out what it’s for".
Bruce Tonkin commented that the registrars don’t even differentiate between the different types of data; they keep it simple for the consumers and just take their contact details and populate the different contacts with it because the consumers don’t understand the distinctions.
David Fares asked whether Bruce was asking for different input to the constituency statements, if so more time was needed to complete them.
Bruce Tonkin, looking at the issue from an engineering point of view, said the first question was: "what are the decisions to be made". From that point of view, purpose was the first thing to organize.
David Fares commented that the task force was asking another set of questions. The user constituencies were being asked how they populated the different contacts and that information was needed before purpose could be contemplated as it might be quite revealing.
Milton Mueller commented that the constituency comments had been prepared on the basic purpose of Whois There was no confusion about the concept of Whois and the data elements and access were not confused. Milton was of the opinion that the comments should not go on for longer. It would be useful to know more about the purpose of Whois in context of ICANN's mission but further commenting time was not required.
Marilyn Cade expressed a similar view that the task force took from the council that council would work in an interactive process with the task force. So suggested doing some work and taking in the council time frame – Jordyn and Maria could look at the time frame.and there could be a series of short consultations along the way.
Jordyn Buchanan commented that depending on availability of council members the task force was trying to work more on the list and less with calls. But it might be useful once every other task force meeting to have 30 minutes for councilors to join if they could.
Bruce Tonkin commented that another option would be to have the Whois task force chair, Jordyn Buchanan on the monthly council call.
Marilyn Cade did not have a problem with that but commented that council had a lot on its plate and that there might not be enough time and not all councilors have action items on Whois.
Jordyn Buchanan commented that it might be more valuable to pull council and task force meetings in different ways depending on what was useful.
Bruce Tonkin responded that there would be no problem with inviting task force members to a part of the council call.
Jordyn Buchanan referred to the constituency statements that have been requested on the purpose of Whois, on tasks 1 and 2. and how the data is populated. He did not believe that going back to the constituencies would gain anything at this point. After July 21 when the statements were due to be submitted he suggested revisiting the issue as it could be that the that purpose of Whois for registrant data might be different to that of technical contact data and then there could be further discussion.
Milton Mueller expressed concern that there was a risk of proliferating with different purposes and getting to where anyone can use it for anything.
Thomas Roessler commented that it was not the ‘purpose of the data' but rather the purpose of doing something with the data, e.g. collecting, publishing, processing, etc. It could be useful to distinguish between the purpose at different points in the life cycle of the data.
Jordyn Buchanan summarised that it was accepted that the collection of the data but the display of data was the issue. Hopefully, once the constituency statements on the recommendation 2 were submitted the next move would be a preliminary report and final stages of the policy development process. After the purpose of the Whois and the contact were defined then there could be a decision if a change would be needed in what data was published, and what access there might be to it. Accuracy would then be given attention as it was agreed to settle issues 1 and 2 before going onto 3. It was agreed that task 4 be deferred for short time to handle some of the other issues. There was a commitment to revisit it after Luxembourg late July or August. Ross Rader indicated that he would make a proposal on accuracy based on the Cape Town discussion unless the task force members felt that it may be easier to drive the accuracy topic to a conclusion if the access topic was dealt with.
Niklas Lagergren enquired whether the next steps on 3 and 4 would be work in parallel or in sequence?
Jordyn Buchanan responded that the task force had made a commitment to revisit that issue and were not going to stop work on the other topics thus some parallelism was implied, but in the long term it would depend on substantive discussions on accuracy. We may get a stumbling block where we need to work in series.
Bruce Tonkin commented that there would be 3 new compliance staff and one of the issues they may look at would be modifying the Whois data Problem reporting system. The main challenge was finding the WDPRS on the website. To keep the task force focused, there was work which could be done with the operations staff on identifying the issues experienced in the market place. More data was required on that subject and the WDPRS needed improvement as it was hard to make additional policy on accuracy issues if there was no compliance with the existing regulations.
Marilyn Cade commented that it was difficult to find the Whois Data Problem Report System (WDPRS) and that people did not use the form but sent an email to ICANN. She questioned how ICANN could gather useful statistics about the kinds of problems they were getting when they were getting narrative complaints.
Niklas Lagergren enquired when the compliance staff would be on board.
Liz Williams commented that the issue was finding properly qualified people and it was moving as quickly as possible.
Bruce Tonkin remarked that the WDPRS was to be found at InterNIC.net, however not everyone knew that, and most people went to the registrar.
Jordyn Buchanan suggested having a group of people that could look at interpretation or implementation of the existing compliance policy.
Bruce Tonkin commented that it referred to the Sunday discussion where the need was identified to have a closer relationship with the ICANN operations staff. There were reports from the operational staff but it was not a two way communication. There should be a designated operations staff person on Whois. It was suggested that Niklas Lagergren chair a meeting on that topic.
It was suggested that the group provide information and raise awareness of the issues through best practices and if it were to be a mechanism for collecting and reporting, then thought should be given on how to use the information obtained.
Ross Rader commented that it was Whois server operators that dealt with this in the gTLD space.
Jordyn Buchanan proposed that the task force members familiarize themselves with
Thomas Roessler's PKI-based authentication mechanism for tiered access to WHOIS
for the next task force call.
Bruce Tonkin reported that John Jeffrey had been asked to provide appropriate legal language for recommendation 2
Niklas Lagergren proposed as chair for a group on Whois policies related to accuracy
(WDRP and WDPRS)
Co-ordinate with Bruce Tonkin and ICANN staff, Maria Farrell and Liz Williams
26 July 2005 9:30 EST, 13:30 UTC