Re: [ga] keeping expired domains by a registrar

["Prophet Partners Inc." <Domains@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Chris,

We were on the topic of automated vs. manual registrations. What's the
correlation between many people manually registering domains for a normal
registration period and eliminating domain tasting?

If it wasn't for subsidies from capitalism, how do you think these small
poor nations would be able to even afford an Internet infrastructure? You do
realize that ICANN registries/registrars from poor countries pay lower fees
that are absorbed by those from developed countries, right?

Sincerely,
Ted
Prophet Partners Inc.
http://www.ProphetPartners.com
http://www.Premium-Domain-Names.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "kidsearch" <kidsearch@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Prophet Partners Inc." <Domains@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
<ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ga] keeping expired domains by a registrar


> Ted, I don't fault anyone for how they make money. As I said, I've made
> money in the domain business. More than most in the nineties. it's why
they
> call me NameCritic. So I do not fault domainers for their business
practice.
> I know you are against domain tasting, so won't even go there and I hope
you
> know I realize your position on that. I believe we feel the same way on
that
> topic.
>
> However, the hiring of a lot of people, even from a third world country to
> manually register names they want would eliminate a lot of domain tasting,
> etc. it would be much better for the average user if this was what they
had
> to do. Thanks for that suggestion.
>
> Where you make the mistake in my opinion, is believing the Internet should
> be based on capitalism. This is a US-Centric attitude and benefits those
in
> several developed nations. ICANN is supposed to represent ALL users
> worldwide. Any policy that provides benefits based on ones ability to pay
> more for something than someone else makes that a flawed policy for the
> purposes ICANN was created for.
>
> Chris McElroy aka NameCritic
> http://www.articlecontentprovider.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Prophet Partners Inc." <Domains@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 12:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [ga] keeping expired domains by a registrar
>
>
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > By human nature, everyone is out to promote their own best interest. We
> > neither deny that we operate a business to make money nor the right for
> > others to do the same. However, we emphasize that we believe in doing so
> > ethically and fairly, without participating in domain tasting or abusive
> > trademark registrations.
> > http://www.nic.us/policies/docs/aaa/Award_49_413_1_06.pdf
> >
> > While it is certainly possible to prevent automatic scripts from
> > registering
> > domains, what makes you think that an ordinary registrant is going to
have
> > a
> > chance against several thousand knowledgeable domainers trying to
manually
> > register valuable domains that are being deleted on a daily basis?
What's
> > to
> > stop a domainer from hiring 100 part time workers for an hour each day
to
> > manually register valuable deleted domains to increase their chances of
> > success? Using Wall Street as an example, do you think that eliminating
> > automated program trading is going to actually benefit individual
> > investors?
> >
> > In our reply to Joop yesterday, we pointed out that there are real-world
> > consequences of action/inaction. Registrants have months of notice to
> > renew
> > before expiration, in addition to extra time after expiration during the
> > grace period. Barring extraordinary circumstances such as the
Registerfly
> > meltdown which involves alleged fraud, registrants should have to face
the
> > consequences. If someone lost their job, had medical problems or got
> > divorced and couldn't pay their mortgage, what do you think the bank is
> > going to do?
> >
> > The redistribution of expired domains is fair and equitable, as they go
to
> > the person/entity willing to pay the most for them, at a particular
point
> > in
> > time. In the capital markets, orders are given priority based on price
and
> > secondly on time. This is the basis for capitalism and represents an
> > efficient marketplace. Given a point in time, if Person A wants to buy
XYZ
> > stock at $10 and Person B wants to pay the fair market price of $100 for
> > XYZ, should XYZ shares be sold to Person A or Person B? The same
situation
> > applies to expired domains. Why should Person A be given the opportunity
> > to
> > buy at $10 (with lower monetary risk) over Person B who is willing to
pay
> > more money at $100 (with higher monetary risk) at that point in time? As
> > mentioned earlier, there is nothing to prevent an ordinary registrant
from
> > buying or bidding on an expired domain, provided they are willing to pay
> > the
> > price. Note that this argument is in favor of the registrars, who would
> > pocket the money and not from us as the customer, who would be paying
the
> > money.
> >
> > Contrary to your belief, we neither have an interest in suppressing your
> > opinions nor that of anyone else. Although we greatly respect your
> > contribution to this list, we believe that your opinions on this matter
> > are
> > based on a socialist ideal and not rooted in economic reality. We have
> > presented valid points that address your concerns and would be
interested
> > in
> > hearing your feedback as well as others on the GA list.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Ted
> > Prophet Partners Inc.
> > http://www.ProphetPartners.com
> > http://www.Premium-Domain-Names.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "kidsearch" <kidsearch@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: "Prophet Partners Inc." <Domains@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
> > <ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 9:05 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ga] keeping expired domains by a registrar
> >
> >
> >> I expect everyone involved in making money on this to have the same
> > opinion
> >> Ted.
> >>
> >> Again, scripts can be written to register expired names and yes it has
> > been
> >> around for years. As early as 1995. I was in the domain speculation
> > business
> >> in 1995 and know about these scripts intimately. However, for every
> >> script
> >> that can be written to do this, one can be written to counter it. it
> >> could
> >> be made impossible to register the expired names by script. Registrars
> > have
> >> not found it to be profitable to do so is the only reason it has not
been
> >> done.
> >>
> >> Domainers are a large part of a registrars income so they tailor things
> >> to
> >> suit the largest customers they have. Normal business practice but
still
> > not
> >> what is best for the web overall in my honest opinion. You are of
cours4e
> >> welcome to disagree and if I was in the business still, I might have
been
> >> right there alongside you, who knows. Right now, as a member of a list,
> > who
> >> is supposed to try to represent the most users, not those who own the
> >> most
> >> domain names, I believe the process has gone on long enough and that
it's
> >> time that the situation was corrected.
> >>
> >> Not idealistic at all to try and represent the best interest of users
> >> instead of my own interests Ted. I respect that you want your view
> >> represented and wish all other views to be called optimistic in hopes
> >> they
> >> will be ignored. Everyone's view here is valid. That's the beauty of
it.
> >>
> >> Chris McElroy aka NameCritic
> >> http://www.articlecontentprovider.com
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "Prophet Partners Inc." <Domains@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: <ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 10:51 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [ga] keeping expired domains by a registrar
> >>
> >>
> >> > Hi Chris,
> >> >
> >> > Your thoughts on this are idealistic, not realistic. The reality is
> >> > that
> >> > expiring domains are still available on a first-come first-serve
basis.
> >> > The
> >> > domain auctions through registrars such as Network Solutions are open
> >> > to
> >> > the
> >> > public and there is nothing to prevent anyone from participating,
> > provided
> >> > they are willing to pay the price. Given that drop catching has been
> >> > automated via scripts for several years already, what makes you think
> > that
> >> > allowing domains to drop via the normal deletion cycle would offer
any
> >> > advantage to the normal registrant? If the registrars didn't auction
> >> > the
> >> > domains, then companies like SnapNames or Pool would, upon
immediately
> >> > registering the domain after Pending Delete.
> >> >
> >> > Expired domains are essentially abandoned property. If you fail to
pay
> > the
> >> > mortgage, your home gets foreclosed and is auctioned off to someone
> > else.
> >> > In
> >> > the real world, lotteries only exist for undeveloped public land, not
> > for
> >> > formerly private property. IMO, the current environment for expiring
> >> > domains
> >> > represents a healthy and competitive market.
> >> >
> >> > Sincerely,
> >> > Ted
> >> > Prophet Partners Inc.
> >> > http://www.ProphetPartners.com
> >> > http://www.Premium-Domain-Names.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> > From: "kidsearch" <kidsearch@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > To: "Nevett, Jonathon" <jnevett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Gomes, Chuck"
> >> > <cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Danny Younger" <dannyyounger@xxxxxxxxx>;
> >> > "Bashar
> >> > Al-Abdulhadi" <bashar@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Cc: <ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 12:29 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: [ga] keeping expired domains by a registrar
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> I see the justification used here for auctioning names off after
> >> > expiration,
> >> >> but it defeats the first-come first-serve nature of domain names and
> > how
> >> >> they should be distributed. If a domain name expires, it should go
> >> >> back
> >> > into
> >> >> the pool so that anyone can register the name at normal registration
> >> > prices
> >> >> period. There really is no justification, other than greed by
> > registrars
> >> > who
> >> >> control these names for holding auctions, using them in parking
> > schemes,
> >> > and
> >> >> making deals with domainers to use them for profit they in turn
share
> >> >> with
> >> >> the registrar.
> >> >>
> >> >> Justification comes easy when it's something that makes you money.
> >> >> However
> >> >> it denies users the right to register a name after it has dropped
into
> >> >> the
> >> >> pool.
> >> >>
> >> >> Chris McElroy aka NameCritic
> >> >> http://www.articlecontentprovider.com