RE: [ga] Increased foreign attendance

["Debbie Garside" <debbie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

 Responses in line:

> > Sorry for being a Johnny-come-lately... We all have to 
> start somewhere 
> > and given that I have monitored this list for 8 months I thought it 
> > was about time I participated.  I didn't realise you had to 
> be in here 
> > from 1998 to participate.
> 
> I never implied any such thing so don't go getting bees in 
> your bustle. 

No bees in my bustle... Not even a rustle! 
NB: if I had a bustle I would have been here since 1898 and would,
therefore, not be a johnny-come-lately ;-)

> Participation has always been open, and so it should be in 
> perpetuity. 

Glad to hear it.

> However, there is a threshold of informed participation which 
> gives us (as Veni likes to put it) "old guys" a distinct 
> vantage point on affairs as they happen to stand.  Oftentimes 
> over the past 9 years, when confronted with the blatant 
> hubris of the developing ICANN bureaucracy, those of us who 
> have been constructive and amenable in days "a long time ago" 
> (as Veni puts it), have what can only be characterised as 
> "enough is enough"
> moments.

Quite understandable - been there myself.  A classic phrase from a language
forum I participate in: "If you want quiet, dispassionate discourse don't
enter the language tagging forum".  It would seem that a similar phrase
could be adopted here in relation to ICANN.  However, my philosophy, when
things get more than a little stagnant is to take a step back, a deep breath
and start again - identifying and outlining objectives in order to make sure
that I stay on the straight and narrow.  What exactly are the objectives of
this group?

> > I have given you my perception of this forum. My perception as a 
> > Johnny-come-lately is probably not worth much but given that many 
> > ICANN staff have changed since 1998 they will no doubt also be 
> > perceived as Johnny-come-latelies.  IF they have the same 
> perception 
> > of this forum as I do that could be the reason why nobody 
> is listening 
> > to you.  Food for thought!
> 
> Here is something from 2001 which you can mull over for a 
> bit, that's if you're serious and wish to assess matters in 
> an informed manner:
> 
> http://forum.icann.org/dnsoreview1/3ADB39BF00000043.html

Thank you.  I will read the document.
 
> The above document was submitted Mon, April 16, 2001 and 
> represents IMHO a particularly good example of the 
> 'constructive' nature of the participation of some of us "old 
> guys" back when we came along with the very same intentions 
> you espouse or would like to "perceive" in this group.  I'm 
> not going to bother to send you back to the interminable 
> email discussions such a varied group as the DNSO of that day 
> had, however, I do think that if you consider the document at 
> the above link you will see a rather impartial approach to 
> voicing the concerns of the DNSO (forerunner to the GNSO).  
> Suffice to say, ICANN staff response was disappointing, to 
> say the least.

I can understand your frustration.  I have found, in my line of work, that
very often the ideas that I have are light years ahead of day to day reality
and that, whilst people can very often (or even just sometimes) fully see
the logic in proposals, implementation is just not possible at that time for
a number of reasons - others just don't see the logic at all.  It is hard
work formulating these type of documents but on the other side, it is a hard
task for the Board and staff, connecting all the dots from the various
stakeholders in order to see future ramifications prior to making decisions
on what to and what not to adopt.  Were any of the recommendations of the WG
accepted? 


> > Please try to be a little more constructive in your posts 
> as opposed 
> > to attacking the "establishment" with every second word and this 
> > perception may change and you may actually achieve what you 
> set out to 
> > achieve whilst gaining support from the 
> johnny-come-latelies of this 
> > world who can strengthen your case.
> 
> It has been my experience that the johnny-come-latelies are 
> usually not inclined to educate themselves fully on the past 
> issues of ICANN to understand the current situation and why 
> many of us have become quite frustrated.  Let's hope you're 
> different.  ;-)

Let's hope I am!  

Best regards

Debbie