RE: [ga] Call for Statements of Interest -- NA RALO Seats on ALAC

[jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Danny and all,

  I support your sentaments here Danny.  But let's
also not forget, most of the subscribers to this
forum didn't even take the time to vote in the last
chair election recently, a total of 20+.  

-----Original Message-----
>From: Danny Younger <dannyyounger@xxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jun 23, 2007 10:55 PM
>To: Roberto Gaetano <roberto@xxxxxxxxx>
>Cc: ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: [ga] Call for Statements of Interest -- NA RALO Seats on  ALAC
>
>Hello Roberto,
>
>The last time that I checked the GA is not an ICANN
>sanctioned body.  As you recall, its representative
>structure was officially eliminated by ICANN at the
>same time that ICANN ignominiously dispensed with
>elected at-large directors.  A truly great moment in
>ICANN history if you happen to be a fan of bloodless
>coups.
>
>Roberto, at one time you respected the value of the GA
>as a cross-constituency platform for discussion (you
>chaired the body), but now the GA doesn't even figure
>in your GNSO Improvements.  
>
>At one time you understood that the At-Large was an
>aggregate of unaffiliated individuals; now you
>persevere in the farce that non-commercial orgs are
>the at-large.
>
>Your ascent to the Board has changed you (in my
>opinion, for the worse).  
>
>... but I'll spare you a back-and-forth discussion
>about the NARALO (it's not worth it), and let you go
>ahead and get ready for the orchestrated photo-op at
>the MOU signing that will demonstrate to the world
>that ICANN has finally solved "its vexing at-large
>problem".
>
>You'll be spending $760,000+ a year for the input from
>these pretenders to the at-large mantle... I hope that
>their pontifications about Internet Governance will be
>worth the expenditure made on their behalf.
>
>Enjoy the rest of your meeting, and let's hope that
>you get to work on the "specifications" needed to deal
>with the required revisions to the RAA.  That's what
>the "real at-large" has been calling for.
>
>all the best,
>Danny
>
>--- Roberto Gaetano <roberto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Danny,
>> 
>> Unless I am missing something, this is the election
>> by the NA RALO members
>> (who are all by definition on the NA RALO list) of
>> *their* representative in
>> ALAC. Thank you for admitting that is at least *not
>> unacceptable* to you to
>> even post it to the NA RALO list, you are very
>> generous and open minded.
>> 
>> If somebody from outside the NA RALO would like to
>> be elected to the
>> position, he/she should, at least, lobby the NA
>> RALO, and/or have a
>> sufficient number of friends in the NA RALO to get
>> elected. Ergo, he/she
>> would know anyhow via the friends he/she has. Of
>> course, for PR reasons, it
>> would be good to publicize this more broadly, I
>> agree with you on that.
>> Where we disagree, is that it is a *fraud*, as you
>> call it, not to do it.
>> 
>> As a matter of fact, may I have the list of all
>> outreach actions the GA has
>> taken when planning the election of its officials?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Roberto
>> 
>> 
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Danny Younger
>> [mailto:dannyyounger@xxxxxxxxx] 
>> > Sent: 22 June 2007 22:31
>> > To: Roberto Gaetano
>> > Cc: ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: RE: [ga] Call for Statements of Interest
>> -- NA RALO 
>> > Seats on ALAC
>> > 
>> > Roberto,
>> > 
>> > No one's arguing that it's unacceptable to post
>> the notice to 
>> > a relevant mailing list.  I contend that the
>> requirement for 
>> > sufficient outreach has not been met. 
>> > The Call for Statements of Interest was not posted
>> on the 
>> > NARALO website, it was not posted on the ALAC
>> website, it was 
>> > not posted on the ICANN website; neither was it
>> posted on 
>> > ICANN's public participation website, nor in the
>> ICANN Blog.  
>> > It was not in an ICANN newsletter, nor in an ICANN
>> news alert 
>> > nor in an at-large newsletter.  
>> > 
>> > Confining the Call only to the tiny handful of
>> subscribers to 
>> > the NA list is unfair to the broader North
>> American At-Large 
>> > community.
>> > 
>> > Perhaps you recall the earlier at-large elections?
>> 
>> > Sufficient publicity, and 10,632 participating
>> North American 
>> > members... and what do you have now with your
>> pretend 
>> > at-large?  Will you even get 32 votes to select a
>> North 
>> > American representative to the ALAC? 
>> > 
>> > It's sad to think that you remain comfortable
>> perpetrating a fraud.
>> > 
>> > As Milton Mueller recently stated on the NCUC
>> list:
>> > 
>> > "Originally, the At Large was created to represent
>> 
>> > unaffiliated individuals. After the "reforms" of
>> 2002, when 
>> > the At Large membership became the At Large
>> Advisory 
>> > Committee, the concept of At Large was suddenly
>> based on "At 
>> > Large Structures" (ALSs). "At large structure" is
>> just a 
>> > fancy name for a noncommercial organization. The
>> combination 
>> > of an ALAC based on ALSs and an NCUC based on
>> noncommercial 
>> > organizations is a source of perpetual confusion
>> among civil 
>> > society actors who are considering participation
>> in ICANN, 
>> > and a source of discoordination within ICANN. This
>> confusion 
>> > is compounded by the fact that many people,
>> apparently 
>> > including the Board Governance Committee, still
>> think that 
>> > ALAC represents unaffiliated individuals, which it
>> does only 
>> > imperfectly because of its reliance on ALSs."
>> > 
>> > The entire ALAC and RALO concepts remain an insult
>> to the 
>> > at-large community.  I guess it's no wonder that
>> you want to 
>> > keep real outreach to the real at-large to a
>> minimum... 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > --- Roberto Gaetano <roberto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > 
>> > > Danny,
>> > > Since the seat is for representing NA RALO, I
>> find it perfectly 
>> > > acceptable to post it in the relevant mailing
>> list, i.e. 
>> > the NA RALO.
>> > > Obviously, participants to the NA RALO mailing
>> list, like you, can 
>> > > post it to other list as they see fit.
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > Roberto
>> > > 
>> > > 
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: owner-ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > [mailto:owner-ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>> > > Danny Younger
>> > > > Sent: 22 June 2007 16:37
>> > > > To: veni markovski; ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > > > Subject: Re: [ga] Call for Statements of
>> Interest
>> > > -- NA RALO
>> > > > Seats on ALAC
>> > > > 
>> > > > Veni,
>> > > > 
>> > > > You understand that no outreach was done
>> > > whatsoever? 
>> > > > Just a Call posted to a single small list? 
>> And
>> > > you find this
>> > > > acceptable?  Shame on you.
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > --- veni markovski <veni@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > > > 
>> > > > > Danny,
>> > > > > you understand that sometimes the quality is
>> not
>> > > in the quantity,
>> > > > > right?
>> > > > > As for that - I believe we have had a
>> discussion
>> > > about the
>> > > > > participation in the At Large process.
>> People
>> > > can choose to
>> > > > be part of
>> > > > > this solution, or part of the problem, or
>> part
>> > > of the landscape.
>> > > > > And, as Wendy pointed out, there is no
>> problem
>> > > for the
>> > > > organizations
>> > > > > (e.g. ISOC-New York) to be more active at
>> the At
>> > > Large.
>> > > > > So, you could contribute, or continue to try
>> to
>> > > mock and ruin other
>> > > > > people's efforts.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > veni
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > At 09:51 6/22/2007  -0700, Danny Younger
>> wrote:
>> > > > > >Spotted only on the North American discuss
>> list
>> > > -- really great
>> > > > > >outreach if all you want is a tiny
>> > > > > club.
>> > > > > >Probably deserves a complaint to the
>> > > Ombudsman's office...
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> > > > 
>> 
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
> 
Regards,
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
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