Re: [ga] keeping expired domains by a registrar
I appreciate your comments Paul, but I don't discount Ted's opinion because he makes money at it. I simply stated that those who do obviously will support that position. There is a difference. Are we not supposed to try to help create policy that benefits the largest number of users rather than those who own the most domain names? If so, then my statement stands as is. People should join the list to make sure their points of view are heard. They should join this list to help, protect their interests. Nothing is wrong with that and it should be a major point in inviting new members to join the list. However, if this list is to revive the GA at any future point, it also has the responsibility of attempting to benefit users of all economic backgrounds, nationalities, etc. If everyone here ONLY represents their own interests then nothing will happen. Nothing will change. Take ICANN as a perfect example. Their are several special interests influencing the way things are done. None of them seem to be trying to take the average user into account when making their decisions. Should we follow that example in creating the GA or should we do the opposite and create an organization that addresses the needs of the majority of users? We complain about ICANN only representing certain interests, yet it's okay for us to do so here on this list? Chris McElroy aka NameCritic http://www.articlecontentprovider.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Stahura" <paul.stahura@xxxxxxxx> To: "kidsearch" <kidsearch@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Prophet Partners Inc." <Domains@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 1:42 PM Subject: RE: [ga] keeping expired domains by a registrar The solution for the tasting issue that Chris brought up (essentially, that the "common man" can't get names because they are being tasted by sophisticated scripters) is, in one word, availability. Create a new type of name... make the tasted names AVAILABLE for registration. Then the common man can register any of them because none of them are "taken". I know those last 2 sentences may be confusing to some. This thread has been fascinating to me. I agree with Ted. Why is it that every time there is a controversial issue, people say "you are making money so your position has no credibility"? Also regarding Chris' statement "Any policy that provides benefits based on ones ability to pay more for something than someone else makes that a flawed policy for the purposes ICANN was created for." If it's not ability to pay, then it's something else, such as queues, or a beauty contest, or politicking. These other methods of distributing goods/benefits are even more flawed. Like it or not, squeeze the balloon in one place and it pops out somewhere else. Take creds, which are used to get names in the drop. ICANN says "equal access to the registry for each cred" and "cred are relatively cheap to get to make it easier for anyone to get one and compete". So the number of creds has increased and will continue to increase/fluctuate near the point where the payment (TO ICANN I might add) is about equal to the income generated by auctioning the names that drop (the number of creds will increase to equilibrium). Its simple economics. I doubt it was their intent, but ICANN probably makes more (in the form of the fees to get and sustain accreditation) than a so-called drop catchers does. If ICANN makes some non-money policy/method to essentially distribute any good/benefit, then THAT thing (such as beauty, first place in a queue, political connections, demonstrated poverty, place of residence, whatever) will be bought and sold.
Yes, I realize that, but extending that system to the people with the most money get all the best domains is still a stretch in my opinion. On your previous question, a lot of tasters are using scripts to register domains as well. I didn't say it would eliminate the problem. However, it would give a BETTER chance to average joe who wants a domain name. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Prophet Partners Inc." <Domains@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [ga] keeping expired domains by a registrar normalHi Chris, smallregistration period and eliminating domain tasting? poor nations would be able to even afford an Internet infrastructure?You do realize that ICANN registries/registrars from poor countries pay lower madefees that are absorbed by those from developed countries, right? whymoney in the domain business. More than most in the nineties. it's theyhopecall me NameCritic. So I do not fault domainers for their businesspractice.I know you are against domain tasting, so won't even go there and I youonknow I realize your position on that. I believe we feel the same way thatcountrytopic. theyto manually register names they want would eliminate a lot of domain tasting, etc. it would be much better for the average user if this was what hadthoseto do. Thanks for that suggestion. inpayseveral developed nations. ICANN is supposed to represent ALL users worldwide. Any policy that provides benefits based on ones ability to themore for something than someone else makes that a flawed policy for interest. Wepurposes ICANN was created for. for> neither deny that we operate a business to make money nor the right doing> others to do the same. However, we emphasize that we believe in to> so > ethically and fairly, without participating in domain tasting or > abusive > trademark registrations. > http://www.nic.us/policies/docs/aaa/Award_49_413_1_06.pdf > > While it is certainly possible to prevent automatic scripts from > registering > domains, what makes you think that an ordinary registrant is going havedaymanually> a > chance against several thousand knowledgeable domainers trying to> register valuable domains that are being deleted on a daily basis?What's> to > stop a domainer from hiring 100 part time workers for an hour each tochances of> manually register valuable deleted domains to increase their eliminating> success? Using Wall Street as an example, do you think that to> automated program trading is going to actually benefit individual > investors? > > In our reply to Joop yesterday, we pointed out that there are > real-world > consequences of action/inaction. Registrants have months of notice during> renew > before expiration, in addition to extra time after expiration faceRegisterfly> the > grace period. Barring extraordinary circumstances such as the> meltdown which involves alleged fraud, registrants should have to thegot> consequences. If someone lost their job, had medical problems or bank is> divorced and couldn't pay their mortgage, what do you think the they go> going to do? > > The redistribution of expired domains is fair and equitable, as toprice> the person/entity willing to pay the most for them, at a particularpoint> in > time. In the capital markets, orders are given priority based on andan> secondly on time. This is the basis for capitalism and represents buy> efficient marketplace. Given a point in time, if Person A wants to XYZ$100> stock at $10 and Person B wants to pay the fair market price of tosituation> for > XYZ, should XYZ shares be sold to Person A or Person B? The same> applies to expired domains. Why should Person A be given the > opportunity > to > buy at $10 (with lower monetary risk) over Person B who is willing paytime?> more money at $100 (with higher monetary risk) at that point in registrant> As > mentioned earlier, there is nothing to prevent an ordinary fromto> buying or bidding on an expired domain, provided they are willing would> pay > the > price. Note that this argument is in favor of the registrars, who paying> pocket the money and not from us as the customer, who would be the> money. > > Contrary to your belief, we neither have an interest in suppressing matter> your > opinions nor that of anyone else. Although we greatly respect your > contribution to this list, we believe that your opinions on this have> are > based on a socialist ideal and not rooted in economic reality. We same> presented valid points that address your concerns and would beinterested> in has> opinion >> Ted. >> >> Again, scripts can be written to register expired names and yes it speculation> been >> around for years. As early as 1995. I was in the domain every> business >> in 1995 and know about these scripts intimately. However, for it>> script >> that can be written to do this, one can be written to counter it. Registrars>> could >> be made impossible to register the expired names by script. not> have >> not found it to be profitable to do so is the only reason it has beenhavestill>> done. >> >> Domainers are a large part of a registrars income so they tailor >> things >> to >> suit the largest customers they have. Normal business practice butcours4e> not >> what is best for the web overall in my honest opinion. You are of>> welcome to disagree and if I was in the business still, I might beenthe>> right there alongside you, who knows. Right now, as a member of a >> list, > who >> is supposed to try to represent the most users, not those who own that>> most >> domain names, I believe the process has gone on long enough and it'susers>> time that the situation was corrected. >> >> Not idealistic at all to try and represent the best interest of hopes>> instead of my own interests Ted. I respect that you want your view >> represented and wish all other views to be called optimistic in of>> they >> will be ignored. Everyone's view here is valid. That's the beauty it.is>> basis.>> > that >> > expiring domains are still available on a first-come first-serve>> > The >> > domain auctions through registrars such as Network Solutions are participating,>> > open >> > to >> > the >> > public and there is nothing to prevent anyone from been> provided >> > they are willing to pay the price. Given that drop catching has offer>> > automated via scripts for several years already, what makes you >> > think > that >> > allowing domains to drop via the normal deletion cycle would anyauction>> > advantage to the normal registrant? If the registrars didn't toimmediately>> > the >> > domains, then companies like SnapNames or Pool would, upon>> > registering the domain after Pending Delete. >> > >> > Expired domains are essentially abandoned property. If you fail paysomeone> the >> > mortgage, your home gets foreclosed and is auctioned off to land,> else. >> > In >> > the real world, lotteries only exist for undeveloped public expiring>> > not > for >> > formerly private property. IMO, the current environment for after>> > domains names>> > expiration, >> >> but it defeats the first-come first-serve nature of domain go>> >> and > how >> >> they should be distributed. If a domain name expires, it should money.share>> >> back >> > into >> >> the pool so that anyone can register the name at normal >> >> registration >> > prices >> >> period. There really is no justification, other than greed by > registrars >> > who >> >> control these names for holding auctions, using them in parking > schemes, >> > and >> >> making deals with domainers to use them for profit they in turn>> >> with >> >> the registrar. >> >> >> >> Justification comes easy when it's something that makes you dropped>> >> However >> >> it denies users the right to register a name after it has into>> >> the >> >> pool. >> >> >> >> Chris McElroy aka NameCritic >> >> http://www.articlecontentprovider.com
|