Re: [ga] IDN issues (was: On Elections)

[jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Danny and all,

  I have been paying very close attention.  Although
some of your remarks are well meaning and nice sounding, again
I don't believe, nor do any of our members, in what you
are trying convey.  However I appriciate your candor and desire
to be so believing in such empirical concepts.

Consensus without measurement doesn't and never has existed
in the real world.  And it cannot within any WG, regardless
of how that WG is formulated.  But it does sound/read nice! >:)
"Rough consensus" is also largly if not completely nonsense.
Any WG leader can claim that a "Rough Consensus" or "Consensus"
exists when there is no means by which that can be reasonably
and accurately determined.

  Fact finding is a different, and manytimes non-compatable
function to determination of policy or even practice/best practice.
What is a fact today may or may not be a fact tomorrow, especially
in any area of exact science or technically inclined field of
endeavor.  Had you the proper education, you understand this clearly.

-----Original Message-----
>From: Danny Younger <dannyyounger@xxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Oct 9, 2007 7:09 AM
>To: jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [ga] IDN issues (was: On Elections)
>
>
>Dear Jeff,
>
>Once again you are mistaken -- recent working groups
>have chosen not to function as voting bodies, but
>rather as fact-finding teams that work on the basis of
>self-evident consensus; as such, the contributions of
>observers have been on a par with the contributions of
>constituency participants.  Had you been paying
>attention instead of merely spewing a constant stream
>of uninformed negativity, you would have seen this
>development within the WHOIS WG and within the Ad-Hoc
>WG on Domain Tasting.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
>> 
>> Danny and all,
>> 
>>   Observer status on a WG has little or no meaning. 
>> Without
>> voting status a participant is marginalized
>> accordingly.  Of
>> course this is systemic to the ICANN/GNSO structure
>> anyway.
>> Such restrictions reflect clearly yet again how lack
>> of 
>> transparency and openness prevails within ICANN and
>> the GNSO.
>> Users or registrants whom are not members of a ICANN
>> constituency
>> are treated as if the were a Internet form of
>> "Illegal Aleian".
>> That's hardly accountable!  Frankly our members find
>> this diatribe
>> insulting and disengenious at best...
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: Danny Younger <dannyyounger@xxxxxxxxx>
>> >Sent: Oct 8, 2007 11:34 AM
>> >To: JFC Morfin <jefsey@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
>> sotiris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >Subject: Re: [ga] IDN issues (was: On Elections)
>> >
>> >
>> >Re:  "GA Members are not accepted in ICANN IDN
>> >committees:  these are reserved to Constituency
>> >members."
>> >
>> >Sorry, not exactly true.  Former GNSO Council Chair
>> >Bruce Tonkin finally allowed for the possibility of
>> >observers. He wrote:
>> >
>> >"There have been some suggested refinements on the
>> >Council mailing list to deal with potential
>> problems. 
>> >At the next Council meeting I will ask the Council
>> to
>> >formally endorse a policy on observers in working
>> >groups.  As the working groups are on a tight
>> >time-line, I don't want to hold up the spirit of
>> the
>> >support I have received from many of the GNSO
>> Council
>> >members for allowing more participation in working
>> >groups.
>> >
>> >So I encourage working groups to move forward on
>> the
>> >following basis with respect to allowing
>> "observers",
>> >who are not GNSO constituency members.
>> >
>> >"Observers: Observers shall not be members of or
>> >entitled to vote on the working group, but
>> otherwise
>> >shall be entitled to participate on equal footing
>> with
>> >members of the working group.   In particular
>> >observers
>> >will be able to join the mailing list, and attend
>> >teleconferences or physical meetings."
>> >
>> >To guard against some of the behaviour that can
>> occur
>> >with unregulated mailing lists, observers must
>> provide
>> >their real name, organisation (if associated with
>> an
>> >organisation) and contact details to the GNSO
>> >secretariat, and the GNSO secretariat will verify
>> at
>> >least their email address and phone contact
>> >information.   Observers will also be requested to
>> >provide a public statement of interest, as for
>> working
>> >group members.
>> >
>> >Where a person joins an already established working
>> >group, this will be on the basis that it is their
>> >responsibility to read the existing documents,
>> listen
>> >to teleconference recordings, and read the mailing
>> >list discussions before commenting on topics that
>> have
>> >already been dealt with by the working group."
>> >
>> >Further, the ALAC IDN WG is open to all.  To
>> >subscribe, go to this URL: 
>>
>>http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/idn-wg_atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> >
>> >You may also wish to comment on the ALAC response
>> to
>> >the GAC-CCNSO Issues Paper -- see
>>
>https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?alac_idn_working_group,
>> >
>> >
>> >       
>> =======
>> 
>> 'Regards,
>> Jeffrey A. Williams
>> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k
>> members/stakeholders strong!)
>> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>>    Abraham Lincoln
>> 
>> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and
>> not with what is very
>> often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>> 
>> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and
>> the burden, B; liability
>> depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
>> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
>> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d
>> Cir. 1947]
>>
>===============================================================
>> Updated 1/26/04
>> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data
>> security IDNS. div. of
>> Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
>> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402
>> E-Mail jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> 
>> 
>
>
>
>       
=======

'Regards,
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very
often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability
depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of
Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx