Re: [ga] scammers using whois privacy

[Jeff Williams <jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Paul and all,

  Good point, and well taken here.

Paul Stahura wrote:

> Jeff, it occurs to me, for your purpose of whois, both an email address
> and phone number would not be required to be publicly displayed either.
> Just a means of contacting the registrant.  For example, a web form
> could be presented that sends the form contents to the (hidden) email
> address, or a skype ID (or some other anonymous ID) could be displayed
> which would connect to the (hidden) phone number when making the skype
> call.
>
> PS
> the real ID Act example... from you... I dig it :>)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 9:07 PM
> To: Hugh Dierker
> Cc: kidsearch; Karl Auerbach; Dena Whitebirch; ga
> Subject: Re: [ga] scammers using whois privacy
>
> Dr. Dierker and all,
>
>   Agreed here Eric and Karl.  I disagree, as do most of our members
> with Chris, in that using whois as a means of due diligence.  Hence
> again
> why "Name and address" of any registrant as viewable data in a whois
> query isn't a need to know issue as it relates to whois data.  Only law
> enforcement needs access to this level of granularity of information
> when
> using whois, and only than only when a criminal investigation is in
> process.
>
>   For instance in texas one is not required to give a physical address
> on ones Drivers license.  However this may change with the passage
> of the real ID Act which each state must give a physical address along
> with some form of biometrics information as well, and the real ID Act
> must begin implementation in 2008.  However this does not translate
> into anyone having access to any texas drivers license.
>
> Hugh Dierker wrote:
>
> >    Look up the history and current laws relating to stalkers. Privacy
> > is paramount and we have developed laws to asure only people with a
> > reasonable need may get the information and they in fact are well
> > tracked.
> >   (some will argue that you can just walk in and get property
> > documents at your local recorder -but think about that. You already
> > know where they live, business licenses are the same.)
> >
> >   Also if you got no real need to know you simply should not.
> >
> >   e
> >
> > kidsearch <kidsearch@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >   None of which I have to do to find out who owns a piece of property
> > or who
> > got the business license for a store offline. On ecommerce websites
> > there is
> > no strong legitimate reason for hiding the information in my opinion
> > Karl.
> > The right to know who you are about to do business with isn't
> > important to
> > you?
> >
> > Chris McElroy aka NameCritic
> > http://www.articlecontentprovider.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karl Auerbach"
> > To: "kidsearch"
> > Cc: "Dena Whitebirch" ; "ga"
> > Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 4:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ga] scammers using whois privacy
> >
> >
> > > kidsearch wrote:
> > >
> > >> ... One of the reasons cited for being able to hide whois info was
> > to ...
> > >
> > > And one of the curative measures that seems to constantly escape the
> > minds
> > > of ICANN is that *before* any person should be allowed to examine
> > whois
> > > information that person ought to be required to declare, in writing,
> > into
> > > a permanent and public archive the following things:
> > >
> > > - Who it is who is making the inquiry (including any necessary
> > proofs of
> > > that identity.)
> > >
> > > - What legal right of the person making the inquiry is being
> > violated.
> > > (If the person is acting as an agent or attorney on behalf of the
> > putative
> > > injured person, than that relationship should be disclosed as well.)
> >
> > >
> > > - A statement of concrete facts that lead to the reasonable belief
> > that
> > > the data subject of the whois record is, in fact, the person who is
> > the
> > > direct cause of those violations.
> > >
> > > In an ideal world this statement would be reviewed by an impartial
> > person
> > > to spot what are incomplete or bogus applications to make whois
> > inquiries.
> > > But that may be too expensive. So in lieu, the manager of the whois
> > > database should do two things:
> > >
> > > - Whenever someone applies to look at a whois record on a person,
> > that
> > > person should be sent an e-mail notice containing the statements
> > above.
> > >
> > > - A tabulation of all the people making inquiries, showing how many
> > > inquiries they have made. This will help identify those who do data
> > > mining from whois.
> > >
> > > But as I have said, this notion of adding a balance to the inquiry
> > system
> > > seems to be something that the mind of ICANN can not absorb.
> > >
> > > --karl--
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Regards,
> --
> Jeffrey A. Williams
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
> IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402
> E-Mail jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>  Registered Email addr with the USPS
> Contact Number: 214-244-4827

Regards,
--
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obediance of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is
very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security
IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402
E-Mail jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
 Registered Email addr with the USPS
Contact Number: 214-244-4827