Re: [ga] FYI: TLDA-Public Re: TLD-WG ICANN to vote on Mass Theft of TLDs from INS TLD Holders

["Jeffrey A. Williams" <jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Danny and all,

  Unfortunately, but certainly I agree with your conclusion Danny.
ICANN is on a tear for creating new TLD's now, which is a good thing,
but isn't considering Inclusive Name spaces already running these
or similar TLD's and colisions will occur sooner or later.  Therefore
if any other Root Server complex has a claim with prior use, will need
to be able to prove such a claim, and likely do so in a relevant court
of law.  ICANN is never going to voluntarily cooperate with other
inclusive name spaces unless their is some money in it for them directly, 
so being well legally represented and prepairing good, sound, and provable 
arguments will likely be necessary.  

-----Original Message-----
>From: Danny Younger <dannyyounger@xxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jun 26, 2008 12:14 PM
>To: ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Joe Baptista <baptista@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [ga] FYI: TLDA-Public Re: TLD-WG ICANN to vote on Mass Theft of 
>TLDs from INS TLD Holders
>
>
>The currently proposed new gTLD implementation process allows for objections 
>to be filed based upon existing legal rights.  If members of the Inclusive 
>Namespace can convince the Dispute Resolution panelists that they have a right 
>under law to their TLDs, they can then thwart any usurpation.
>
>I would advise you to begin preparing your legal arguments.
>
>regards,
>Danny
>
>
>--- On Thu, 6/26/08, Joe Baptista <baptista@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> From: Joe Baptista <baptista@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [ga] FYI: TLDA-Public Re: TLD-WG ICANN to vote on Mass Theft of 
>> TLDs from INS TLD Holders
>> To: ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 2:45 PM
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Joe Baptista <baptista@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 12:05 PM
>> Subject: TLDA-Public Re: TLD-WG ICANN to vote on Mass Theft
>> of TLDs from INS
>> TLD Holders
>> To: tld-wg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, public@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> 
>> 
>> I don't quite understand why we are calling it theft
>> right now.  Clearly
>> this has a lot of potential to be another technical fiasco
>> if not looming
>> legal quagmire.  But ICANN I think is trying a very
>> difficult experiment in
>> being what it was always intended to be.  A public
>> resource.  And
>> incidentally the same approach was being considered for
>> INAIC.  I was
>> present at an INAIC council meeting held in Amsterdam
>> dealing with this.
>> The same people who were in on the action then are in on
>> the action now via
>> ICANN - I'm speaking of Milton Muler and that law
>> professor from Miami.
>> 
>> We were in the process back in 2005 of contracting the
>> Muler clan to INAIC
>> to develop the necessary policy framework to do what ICANN
>> is doing now.  Of
>> course that all went poof when I blew the whistle on the
>> insider trading
>> going on there.  Non the less the European experiment we
>> now call HEX
>> (Herman EXperiment) or Herman-ex proved conclusively that
>> internet commerce
>> demanded TLDs and HEX was in an excellent position to
>> replace ICANN as the
>> primary public root back then.  We had the momentum before
>> I blew the
>> whistle.
>> 
>> This did not happen - thank god - because I blew my
>> whistle.  After all I
>> would never sanction a project that would of simply
>> replaced one set of
>> sophisticated crooks, ICANN, with another set of less
>> sophisticated crooks -
>> the HEX or collectively, INAIC, UnifiedRoot, UNIDT et al.
>> 
>> Now we should NOT be surprised by ICANNs action.  HEX
>> pretty much blasted
>> the ICANN midships.  Vint Cerf got the boot and now we have
>> Peter Dengate
>> Thrush as Chair.  Anyone who knows the history of the names
>> involved here
>> know Thrush is BWG - boston working group.  You remember
>> them - the Richard
>> Sexton clan.  So the appointment of Thrush as ICANN chair
>> signals a
>> significant changing of the guard at ICANN.
>> 
>> You might say ICANN is in the middle of a friendly BWG
>> takeover battle with
>> the consent and blessing of the DOC.  But there is a lot of
>> decent at ICANN
>> over what is happening.  In any case they are willing to
>> listen - or have
>> made the appropriate noises - there have been two meetings
>> thus far of
>> ICANNers and staff on the subject this past April 11 and
>> 17.
>> 
>> I think this is an honest effort on ICANNs - with a lot of
>> opposition from
>> the registries and those with an interest in the ICANN
>> money machine - and
>> for all I know it may crash terribly before it gets
>> anywhere.  But I don't
>> think you are in any position to call them crooks.
>> 
>> The crooks are the people your involved with over in Europe
>> who have sold
>> TLDs they had no rights to sell, and have provided sub
>> standard service - in
>> the case of INAIC a root at the end of a DSL pipe - and in
>> the case of
>> Unifiedroot - no root at all of any technical significance.
>> 
>> What protections are there for the TLD holders who have
>> been hoodwinked into
>> buying a Newroot, INAIC or Unifiedroot TLD allocation. 
>> Will they be
>> protected and defended at ICANN?  And how will an ICANN
>> review go when we
>> all know they are crooks and can't run a root.  Thats
>> not going to look good
>> before an ICANN review panel.
>> 
>> Its a good thing I got the TLDA back together.  At least
>> these TLD holders
>> will have complaint systems - even crooks have to be
>> compliant - questions
>> is - how many TLD holders will want to stay with the
>> crooks?  I left - but
>> you stayed behind John.
>> 
>> I also find it a bit offensive that you are calling ICANNs
>> actions theft.
>> Only those without guilt may cast the stone.  Go to the
>> mirror John and look
>> yourself in the eye.  The man you are staring at is the
>> same one who high
>> jacked the TLDA domain names - TLDA.org and TLDA.net.  So I
>> don't think you
>> are in a moral position here to cast judgment on ICANN.
>> 
>> Also you know whats happening here at the TLDA.  The fraud
>> your pals have
>> perpetuated in Europe is being fixed.  You also know the
>> TLDA now has
>> unrestricted access to the Public Root Archives - which
>> show just how much
>> fraud has been perpetuated by the fraudsters at HEX.  These
>> archives will
>> are instrumental in fixing name space.  And you know it has
>> not been easy -
>> what with all the bogus registrations at INAIC and
>> Unifiedroot.  Ooops -
>> almost forgot - you too have tried to pass of the .BAX TLD
>> as real - even
>> though no one is able to verify the administrator - and the
>> administrator
>> his behind a yahoo address.
>> 
>> Its this sort of crap we are left to clean up.
>> 
>> Remember John - the ICANN move may be a legal quagmire -
>> but the INAIC /
>> Unifiedroot HEX is in fact a legal scam of significant
>> proportions.  In the
>> end I say to you that the only people who need protecting
>> are the TLD
>> holders who purchased their TLDs from the HEX.  And we are
>> doing that.
>> ICANN we should watch but at this point I don't see the
>> ICANN move as being
>> significant.  They are testing the waters.
>> 
>> cheers
>> joe baptista
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Palmer, John
>> <jpalmer@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> 
>> > It appears that ICANN is getting ready to vote on a
>> proposal that will
>> > allow wholesale theft of TLDs from the
>> > Inclusive Namespace. As I understand the proposals,
>> ICANN will relax its
>> > rules on creating new TLDs in
>> > the ICANN root and will basically auction off TLD
>> strings to the highest
>> > bidder
>> >
>> > Translation: The intend to steal the business products
>> of thousands of TLD
>> > holders and sell them to others.
>> >
>> > Why isn't this being discussed more that it is?
>> Joe - Now would be the time
>> > for you to raise your voice to defend
>> > those TLD holders that you represent.
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Joe Baptista
>> www.publicroot.org
>> PublicRoot Consortium
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive,
>> Representative &
>> Accountable to the Internet community @large.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Office: +1 (360) 526-6077 (extension 052)
>> Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Joe Baptista
>> www.publicroot.org
>> PublicRoot Consortium
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive,
>> Representative &
>> Accountable to the Internet community @large.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>  Office: +1 (360) 526-6077 (extension 052)
>>     Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084
>
>
>      
Regards,

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