Re: [council] Enhancing ICANN Accountability | ICANN - Proposed Next Steps for the Process

[Avri Doria <avri@xxxxxxx>]

On 29-May-14 13:42, Tony Holmes wrote:
> 
> Hi Avri Not sure whether you disagree with part of it or all? 

I rarely fully agree or fully disagree with anything.
(I am sure we can find counter examples)
Though I often do it strongly.

> But if
> you can find someone who can faithfully claim to represent all of the
> diverse views of the many GNSO Constituencies on every topic and
> satisfy all parties in doing that, then they're working below their
> pay grade and would be better employed solving world peace.  :-)

We elect them to represent.  It is their job to do that.  They can
fairly represent and they can point to others when there is view they do
not feel qualified to state neutrally. I think that the ability to
express the viewpoint of others neutrally and fairly is a requirement
for chairs, a role that is often filled by mere mortals who do it more
or less well.  And they are accountable for how they do it, and they get
slammed when they make mistakes.

> 
> Being more serious,  I always have major concerns whenever the GNSO
> Council involves itself in anything outside of generic name policy
> which is all it was set up to address. Speaking for a broad base set
> of constituents on other issues is fraught with problems, which
> ideally should be tackled by cross community WG's that allow ALL of
> those diverse views to be voiced, rather than diluted through a
> mechanism that was set up to progress a tightly defined policy
> process.

Yeah it is tough gig.
That is why we should elect carefully.

And why we do it every year.
Just in case we pick wrongly.

> 
> Looks like we have the basis for a good discussion over a beer in
> London!
> 

Or over a Gin.

looking forward to it.

avri

> Tony
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Avri Doria Sent:
> 29 May 2014 17:53 To: council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [council]
> Enhancing ICANN Accountability | ICANN - Proposed Next Steps for the
> Process
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> I strongly disagree with this.
> 
> avri
> 
> 
> On 29-May-14 12:21, Tony Holmes wrote:
>> I have to support John here. Any expectation by ICANN staff or from
>>  Fadi, that Jonathan or anyone else as chair of the Council can
>> speak for all of the GNSO on any, issue needs to be nailed. It’s
>> not a practical proposition, neither is it fair on those
>> individuals who sit in the hot seat. However I have little doubt
>> that if we don’t continually strive to make that abundantly clear,
>> it’ll be used as a fast track route for progressing contentious
>> issues when it suits.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> This does not imply any criticism, I’m  aware that Jonathan in 
>> particular has often gone out of his way to state that he’s not 
>> empowered to speak for the GNSO on a variety of issues. It also 
>> underlines the lack of appreciation of how different and diverse
>> the GNSO is compared with most other SO’s. That’s something we need
>> to work hard to change at every opportunity.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Tony
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:*owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of 
>> *john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx *Sent:* 29 May 2014 16:40 *To:* Avri
>> Doria; council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx *Subject:* RE: Re: [council]
>> Enhancing ICANN Accountability | ICANN - Proposed Next Steps for
>> the Process
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Avri,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Now it is a party.  With regard to your point, there is "far less 
>> support for, or agreement on, a bottom-up model" from whom?  The BC
>>  strongly supports the concept, despite its difference from the
>> more normal top-down process in most corporations.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As for Jonathan, he is elected the chair of the GNSO Council and, 
>> perhaps, as the titular head of the GNSO in full, the increased use
>> of him by the staff and CEO to stand as the actual head of the
>> entire GNSO is a point of irritation for many.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> If I were Fadi, I'd want to do the same thing.  It makes life
>> neater and makes decisions more easily reached.  But that is not
>> the way we have and ought to work.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> My view.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Berard
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --------- Original Message ---------
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [council] Enhancing ICANN Accountability | ICANN - 
>> Proposed Next Steps for the Process From: "Avri Doria"
>> <avri@xxxxxxx <mailto:avri@xxxxxxx>> Date: 5/29/14 8:14 am To:
>> council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On 29-May-14 10:55, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>> <mailto:john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> By setting the agenda on a question of "4 or 5" we miss the
>>> larger
>> point
>>> of empowering the muilti-stakeholder, consensus-driven,
>>> bottom-up process. If that is too messy a place for the IANA
>>> contract to reside (which, I think, is Fadi's goal in all of
>>> this), then so be it.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I think that while there is support for a multistakeholder
>> process, there is far less support for, or agreement on, a
>> bottom-up model.
>> 
>> I believe senior management has more a representative model in
>> mind. For example according to the by-laws, we elect Jonathan as
>> the chair of the GNSO, he therefore speaks for the GNSO when he
>> wears his Chair of the GNSO hat. Obviously he can't be the
>> spokesperson in everything, so then the GNSO council should be able
>> elect someone else to be the representative for the issue under
>> discussion. On the case of the IANA committee, it is believed, we
>> should be able to elect 2 people to represent us.
>> 
>> That is, they expect us to be able to elect representatives.
>> 
>> On the other had, we have varying degrees of trust of elected 
>> representatives. Some want to keep the power as close to the bottom
>> as they can, which is incompatible with entrusting representatives,
>> and they want to bring every issue back to vox populi.
>> 
>> Both the representative model and the 'check with the people before
>> very decision' model are multistakeholder, and both can even be
>> described as bottom-up, but one is a lot more bottom-up than the
>> other.
>> 
>> The problem with comparative body count for the committees, is they
>> are offering a representative model whereas many in GNSO seem to
>> want a more of an ambassadorial model where the 'ambassador' to the
>> group from each SG has to be in constant contact with her capital
>> before she can speak.
>> 
>> avri
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>