Re: [council] Kenya Agenda questions: Saturday Council dinner and Sunday breakfast

[Wendy Seltzer <wendy@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Stéphane Van Gelder wrote:
> Thanks Wendy, I understand the argument.
> 
> But this is an extra session that we're all volunteering into.

Fine, and if I'm volunteering, I volunteer to talk about any matter of
policy, or about why we differ on those, or about how we might better
work through misunderstandings or disagreements on those.  I think those
benefit from both informal and formally structured conversation.

I was not a part of the Council when the previous session was planned,
so I don't know its rationale or specific mandate.  I'm simply stating
my preference for meetings going forward, including those we add to the
schedule.

Thanks,
--Wendy

 It's not actually taking up another planned session's time.
> 
> The decision is, basically, do we all want to start the day talking to each 
> other or would we rather wait until 9:30 to all get to sit down together?
> 
> If we do go for the breakfast option, then why not air our grievances in an 
> open fashion?
> 
> Stéphane
> 
> Le 13 janv. 2010 à 22:26, Wendy Seltzer a écrit :
> 
>> Adrian Kinderis wrote:
>>> I'm not attending so I'll say this for what it is worth...
>>>
>>> Why not make it a "gripe" session? What are you all afraid of.
>> I'm afraid of turning into another version of ALAC, where so much
>> discussion seemed to focus internally that we never got to debating
>> matters of policy.  I don't want to spend our limited face-to-face time
>> talking about internal politics, but rather focusing on those
>> "degenerate" topics on which the Council is asked (or asks) for policy
>> input.
>>
>> I object to a closed session, not to an open one.
>>
>> --Wendy
>>
>>> I thought last time there was a healthy debate about perspectives and 
>>> positions and it was a good opportunity to ask direct questions to fellow 
>>> Councillors.
>>>
>>> Sure, "gripe" may not be the right word but, a session to "air grievances" 
>>> is necessary and valid in my opinion.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, why have the session? It will just degenerate into a discussion 
>>> about new gTLD's or WhoIs. There are plenty of avenues for that.
>>>
>>> I would say that, as Mary says, you have leadership and guidance from the 
>>> Chairs and Vice Chairs. We have a healthy respect for each other. I am not 
>>> sure why there is a concern.
>>>
>>> If you have problems with participating in an open discussion don't 
>>> participate - as a number of members didn't last time.
>>>
>>> As one that was involved in the idea's inception I'd certainly not like to 
>>> see it diluted into just another session to cover outstanding topics.... 
>>>
>>> Adrian Kinderis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
>>> Behalf Of Wendy Seltzer
>>> Sent: Thursday, 14 January 2010 3:45 AM
>>> To: Stéphane Van Gelder
>>> Cc: council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: Re: [council] Kenya Agenda questions: Saturday Council dinner and 
>>> Sunday breakfast
>>>
>>>
>>> Stéphane Van Gelder wrote:
>>>> Thanks Debbie.
>>>>
>>>> If anyone is opposed to the breakfast, please let either Glen or myself 
>>>> know as soon as you can.
>>> I support a breakfast so long as it's not a "grievances" session.
>>>
>>> --Wendy
>>>
>>>> Thanks again.
>>>>
>>>> Stéphane
>>>>
>>>> Le 13 janv. 2010 à 16:19, <HughesDeb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> Stéphane,
>>>>> Breakfast and dinner are a great idea!
>>>>> Thanks for working on this.
>>>>> Debbie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Debra Y. Hughes, Senior Counsel
>>>>> American Red Cross
>>>>>
>>>>> Office of the General Counsel 
>>>>> 2025 E Street, NW 
>>>>> Washington, D.C. 20006 
>>>>> Phone: (202) 303-5356 
>>>>> Fax: (202) 303-0143
>>>>> HughesDeb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
>>>>> On Behalf Of Stéphane Van Gelder
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:18 AM
>>>>> To: Caroline Greer
>>>>> Cc: council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Subject: Re: [council] Kenya Agenda questions: Saturday Council dinner 
>>>>> and Sunday breakfast
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Caroline and Wolf for your quick responses.
>>>>>
>>>>> To be honest, I think the Sat dinner is a given. We all enjoyed the Seoul 
>>>>> one and I never heard anyone say we shouldn't do another one. Plus it was 
>>>>> a pay-your-own-way event so really, there shouldn't be much problem with 
>>>>> this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Glen has already found a possible venue and I am going to make an 
>>>>> executive decision ;) to put it on the agenda. If anyone objects within 
>>>>> the next couple of days, we can always look at this again. 
>>>>>
>>>>> The breakfast is the one I am much less sure of. As a reminder, this was 
>>>>> kind of intended to be an informal discussion between ourselves to help 
>>>>> anyone get anything they wanted off their chests. In Seoul, this was 
>>>>> organised in one of the meeting rooms. Does the Council feel we should do 
>>>>> this again for Kenya?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Stéphane
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 13 janv. 2010 à 12:56, Caroline Greer a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Stéphane,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being a 'newbie' to the group, I would welcome any opportunity for an 
>>>>>> informal get-together with colleagues before the meetings proper. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Caroline.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
>>>>>> On Behalf Of KnobenW@xxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Sent: 13 January 2010 11:43
>>>>>> To: stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx; council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Subject: AW: [council] Kenya Agenda questions: Saturday Council dinner 
>>>>>> and Sunday breakfast
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stéphane,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I support the dinner which gives more opportunity for unofficisl talks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wolf-Ulrich
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>>>> Von: owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
>>>>>> Im Auftrag von Stéphane Van Gelder
>>>>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. Januar 2010 09:01
>>>>>> An: GNSO Council
>>>>>> Betreff: [council] Kenya Agenda questions: Saturday Council dinner and 
>>>>>> Sunday breakfast
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Councillors,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am currently working with Glen on our agenda for the Kenya meeting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you may recall, in Seoul we had an unofficial dinner on the meeting's 
>>>>>> first Saturday and there we also a Council breakfast on the following 
>>>>>> Sunday morning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For Kenya, the question of these events remains undecided and we are 
>>>>>> therefore not sure whether we should include them in the agenda or not. 
>>>>>> Our understanding is that there is broad support within the Council for 
>>>>>> the Saturday dinner, less certain support for the Sunday breakfast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do people think? Should we plan for both the Saturday dinner and 
>>>>>> Sunday breakfast, one and not the other, none of the above?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stéphane
>>>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> phone: +1.914.374.0613
>> Fellow, Silicon Flatirons Center at University of Colorado Law School
>> Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University
>> http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html
>> http://www.chillingeffects.org/
>> https://www.torproject.org/
> 


-- 
Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@xxxxxxxxxxx
phone: +1.914.374.0613
Fellow, Silicon Flatirons Center at University of Colorado Law School
Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html
http://www.chillingeffects.org/
https://www.torproject.org/