[council] RE: Next steps with the new gTLD recommendations (was: Draft Agenda for... 7 June 2007)

["Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Mawaki,

Thanks for the clarifying your use of the word 'deceitful'; I confess
that I did not take as you intended at all.

Regarding your view regarding past and future chairs, I don't agree with
your assessment, but it is okay to disagree.

Chuck Gomes
 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mawaki Chango [mailto:ki_chango@xxxxxxxxx] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 11:16 AM
> To: Gomes, Chuck; Council GNSO; gtld-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: Next steps with the new gTLD recommendations 
> (was: Draft Agenda for... 7 June 2007)
> 
> Political ambition? Hmm... interesting to hear that.
> 
> Based on reactions to my earlier email both on the list and 
> off, I think the following clarification is in order.
> 
> When I used the term "deceitful", I didn't mean that the 
> committee was manipulating and deceiving people. In fact, I 
> was talikng of a specific *argument*, right? In my mind at 
> the time of writing, that term means the same as flawed, 
> fallacious or misleading. And indeed, it is misleading: again 
> how can you be so sure you've correctly and fairly address 
> those issues without the participation of the proponents, 
> without any contradicting party? or was there one?
> 
> So if that term offended any one committee member, I do 
> apologize for that. It was not meant to offense people, but 
> to point out that an *argument* was flawed and misleading.
> 
> Other than that, I think I have the right to worry that a 
> past and prospective chair of the council: 
> 
> i) threatens to return to the starting blocks with his 
> constituency "wish list" (demands? revendications?) because 
> some of another constituency's critical views have been 
> mostly discussed in their absence and they feel those are not 
> substantially addressed enough as a consequence; 
> 
> ii) displays the disdain of picking, as chair of the Whois 
> WG, the members of the WG whose questions to address and 
> ignoring the rest as he pleases (note: addressing a question 
> directed to someone, as that was the case, does not necessary 
> mean having a definite answer to it.)  
> 
> I don't know if those are "parliamentary" manners. If others 
> here wouldn't find the above latter offensive, some others do 
> and I certainly am part of these others.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mawaki  
> 
> --- "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> > Mawaki,
> > 
> > I personally think the suggestions of deceit and political ambition 
> > are inappropriate and suggest that you argue your points 
> objectively 
> > without making such assertions.
> > 
> > Chuck Gomes
> >  
> > "This message is intended for the use of the individual or 
> entity to 
> > which it is addressed, and may contain information that is 
> privileged, 
> > confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.
> > Any
> > unauthorized use, distribution, or disclosure is strictly 
> prohibited. 
> > If you have received this message in error, please notify sender 
> > immediately and destroy/delete the original transmission."
> >  
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mawaki
> > Chango
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 1:29 PM
> > > To: 'Council GNSO'
> > > Subject: Re: [council] Draft Agenda for Council meeting - 
> > > Thursday 7 June 2007
> > > 
> > > >>> [Bruce] it is better to proceed in such a way that
> > minimises
> > > risk in the first round, but also allows flexibility to 
> > > update the recommendations based on experience of the first
> > round.
> > > 
> > > Do you have anything specific in mind? what and where are
> > the 
> > > provisions to ensure such flexibility? I think it is 
> > > important to know concretely how this can be handled, should
> > 
> > > the need arise.
> > > 
> > > I don't see any contradiction between the fact that a lot of
> > 
> > > work has been put into a PDP, and the possibility for the
> > > *Council* to determine  in the end the level of support for 
> > > each recommendation so that, as Bruce has put it, at least 
> > > the recommendations that are capable of supermajority be 
> > > secured and built on later on.
> > > 
> > > The argument that the recommendations cannot be considered 
> > > individually because they are inter-dependent is a
> > fallacious 
> > > one because i) most of the recommendations have been 
> > > discussed separately during the process, and ii) if 
> > > recommendations are so inter-related that it wouldn't make 
> > > sense to adopt/implement one without the other, then clearly
> > 
> > > those who support one will support the other. 
> > > 
> > > Similarly, the idea of the committee having thoroughly 
> > > discussed the issues raised by NCUC (for example) without
> > any 
> > > proponents of those ideas/issues being there to explain and 
> > > respond is deceitful.
> > > 
> > > > Note
> > > > Not all the recommendations please everyone.
> > > > It is not appropriate for Council to revisit issues just
> > because 
> > > > individuals wish to re-run arguments that earlier failed
> > to 
> > > persuade.
> > > > If that's how we will play it then the BC will return with
> > our 
> > > > original wish list, so may the IPC, so may the ISPs, so
> > may ... etc.
> > > 
> > > This is so bright! just that in such perspective, the PDP 
> > > process is nothing but a merely political process governed
> > by 
> > > corporatism. (You may note, Liz, that this is not the best 
> > > mindset and environment for dialogue between constituencies 
> > > as you've been encouraging for.) If that's the case, then it
> > 
> > > should be no surprise that courts become (are?) the only 
> > > place where some sense of higher norms and overall
> > legitimacy 
> > > is re-stablished in the ICANN's decisions.
> > > 
> > > That shouldn't worry me, but I'm worried that this is the 
> > > perspective of an aspirant chairman for the council. 
> > > 
> > > Mawaki
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- Philip Sheppard <philip.sheppard@xxxxxx> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Bruce,
> > > > allow me to respond to your questions about how we handle
> > the gTLD 
> > > > report.
> > > >  
> > > > 1. We treated this issue as a committee of the whole of 
> > > Council. This 
> > > > process was explicitly to ensure incremental buy-in to 
> > > recommendations 
> > > > by Council. It escapes all logic that Council would then 
> > > vote on each 
> > > > recommendation. That process would seem suited to a task 
> > > force report. 
> > > > Have we all been wasting our time? I trust not.
> > > >  
> > > > 2. We also opened the group to observers and received 
> > > excellent input. 
> > > > That was also a process designed to explicitly ensure
> > incremental 
> > > > buy-in to recommendations by the wider community.
> > > >  
> > > > 3. Staff have diligently drafted version upon version of 
> > > the report so 
> > > > that we were all able to track emerging recommendations 
> > > that achieved 
> > > > broad support.
> > > > What was the point of all
> > > > that if we now vote on each recommendation as if it came 
> > > from nowhere 
> > > > ?
> > > > 
> > > > 4. The recommendations were not made in glorious
> > isolation.
> > > > Many are inter-dependent. We
> > > > will end up with a pigs breakfast if we assume the 
> > > recommendations can 
> > > > operate in isolation.
> > > > 
> > > > Conclusion
> > > > We must vote on the report as a whole.
> > > >  
> > > > Note
> > > > Not all the recommendations please everyone.
> > > > It is not appropriate for Council to revisit issues just
> > because 
> > > > individuals wish to re-run arguments that earlier failed
> > to 
> > > persuade.
> > > > If that's how we will play it then the BC will return with
> > our 
> > > > original wish list, so may the IPC, so may the ISPs, so
> > may ... etc.
> > > >  
> > > > Further work
> > > > There are a lot of issues that need further work or at 
> > > least feedback 
> > > > to Council on their implementation. Indeed this applies to
> > most 
> > > > recommendations !
> > > > It would be useful therefore to explicitly mark in the
> > report where 
> > > > Council expects formal feedback from staff.
> > > > That makes it clear for us, clear for staff.
> > > > 
> > > > Link to the sub groups
> > > > We also need to make explicit reference to the inclusion 
> > > and support 
> > > > for these reports where appropriate.
> > > > 
> > > >  
> > > > Philip
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>