RE: [council] Meeting Protocol for Brussels and beyond...

[Adrian Kinderis <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

At the risk of a bout of email ping pong here goes... see below in red.

Adrian Kinderis


From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 6:12 PM
To: Adrian Kinderis
Cc: council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Council
Subject: Re: [council] Meeting Protocol for Brussels and beyond...

Hola Adrian

On Jun 2, 2010, at 8:49 AM, Adrian Kinderis wrote:


Interesting... thanks Bill.

I think you all (y'all) are missing the point about being elected 
representatives.

I do that a lot, sorry

AK>> Stop it! ;)


The community input and participation is sufficiently covered - and if not, I 
have suggested mechanisms where their input is heard (via Councillors and or 
through the Chair). I do not consider this Draconian. Draconian would be to 
exclude them altogether or ask them for their input prior to the meeting. This 
is being organised and efficient. Don't forget, everyone gets a say.

I guess we just have different mental models of bottom up democratic processes. 
 Yours is strictly representative, mine's participatory.

AK>> How is asking a representative or the Chair to ask your question not 
participatory? You are still in the room. You still have a voice...

An inexact parallel but it speaks to worldviews-in related intergovernmental 
organization processes, most governments have made clear they would like global 
business, the Internet technical community, and civil society to sit quietly or 
not even be in the room on the grounds that they sufficiently represent all our 
viewpoints.  For those of us who have battled to open these processes up to 
more diverse voices, it would be rather odd to then turn around and impose 
limitations in the bodies we tout as superior precisely because they allow open 
participation.

AK>> That paragraph has to be somewhat of an overreaction and emotional 
hoo-haa! Once again, how is my suggestion not open participation. I am not sure 
that my suggestion hurts anyone's civil liberties or restrict basic human 
rights but I could be wrong... Why aren't all these folks jumping up and down 
about the Board having completely closed sessions with ICANN staff? How is it 
any different?

In the same vain why aren't our GNSO calls open for the public?

AK>> I note no response here...

I also think it is important to raise the profile of our Councilors (and the 
prestige for that matter). Folks should be made to feel comfortable to use them 
to convey a point of view. Also, Councilors work very hard, it could be 
considered a position of value to have been elected to sit at the table and to 
have the ability to converse directly with Staff and the Board. You never know, 
it may entice more folks to want to put themselves forward as Councilors if 
they can see an immediate benefit.

You really believe that the status (don't know about 'prestige') of Councilors 
is reduced if someone sitting off the table is called on to offer some thoughts 
after we've had our turns?

AK>> Yup. That is why I wrote it.



I think talking to repeat offenders "offline" is a useless exercise and 
potentially creates a difficult and embarrassing situation. Why should we have 
to play police officer? I'd like to avoid that tension completely.

I agree it's awkward and hasn't worked sufficiently, but one could always 
redouble the effort and up the ante a bit.

AK>> Please propose a method and an executioner. I have enough people that 
think I'm a jerk and don't need any help...



With reference to my offer for drinks... we did it, but I had too many members 
of the public claiming their right for a drink and ran out of money ;)

NC missed the memo :-(


By the way, I am  against any invitation or information with the words "inter 
alia" included. Makes me feel that only the smart people are invited...

Sorry, I do sometimes slip into UN-speak.  Chuck busted me the other day for 
referring to the "ICANN Secretariat" in a draft doc, sigh...  But rest assured, 
it's a free open air concert and Toots will serenade all comers without regard 
to stakeholder group or other identities...

AK>> So I'll be able to participate in the concert then with my rendition of a 
few Led Zepplin songs played on my harmonica? I trust they don't limit 
participation on the stage ;)

Cheers,

Bill





From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, 2 June 2010 4:20 PM
To: Adrian Kinderis
Cc: council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Council
Subject: Re: [council] Meeting Protocol for Brussels and beyond...

Hi Adrian,

On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:24 AM, Adrian Kinderis wrote:



I would like to suggest that there be no questions from the floor during these 
sessions.

When we last had this conversation didn't we decide against draconian measures 
that would preclude community participation (and were hence poorly received by 
some) and for some intermediate steps like only Councilors at the table, chair 
gives preference to Councilor comments and right sizes the time for others, 
etc?  If people think this has not worked sufficiently, wouldn't it be possible 
to simply have an offline conversation with the most relevant parties saying 
please respect the following ground rules, and to reiterate these at the outset 
of meetings?


On Jun 2, 2010, at 2:51 AM, Adrian Kinderis wrote:



I'll shout an extra round at the bar on Saturday night to make up for it :)

Hmm...didn't I hear something like this a few meetings ago, didn't 
materialize... :-)

BTW, on the matter of after hour amusement, perhaps I'll pass along something I 
pointed out to NCSG, might be of interest to some here:


On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 1:33 PM, William Drake
<william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> 
wrote:


Hi

Just an FYI for people who will be attending ICANN Brussels, as with Paris two 
summers ago, this meeting overlaps with the annual Fete de la Musique held 
across France, Belgium, Switzerland, etc.  Just had a look at the program 
http://2010.fetedelamusique.be/recherches?tid=&tid_1=All&city=Bruxelles and 
inter alia Saturday night 19th Toots and the Maytals is playing in the park 
near the conference site.

Bill

***********************************************************
William J. Drake
Senior Associate
Centre for International Governance
Graduate Institute of International and
 Development Studies
Geneva, Switzerland
william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html
***********************************************************