AW: [registrars] Further summary of the GNSO Council Meeting 17 Jan 2008

["Thomas Keller" <tom@xxxxxxxx>]

Hi Stéphane,

.asia and .cat are quite easy to explain. They are not on the ISO 3166 list
and hence gTLDs. EU was included on the ISO list and is therefore a ccTLD
;). Sounds weird, I agree but that is what had to be done according to the
defined rules. The problem is that the rules are likely to change due to the
introduction of IDNs. As ICANN itself is not deciding anything, we all can
actively participate in shaping how the future rule set will look like.
(thats very optimistic I know ,)).

tom

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Stéphane Van Gelder [mailto:stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. Januar 2008 14:47
An: 'Thomas Keller'; 'Tim Ruiz'
Cc: 'Registrars Constituency'
Betreff: RE: [registrars] Further summary of the GNSO Council Meeting 17 Jan
2008

Hi Tom,

I think you misunderstood me.
What I call Icann-sanctioned gTLDs are extensions like .ASIA, which IMO are
borderline gTLD/ccTLD. That is why I talked about "pseudo IDN ccTLDs" in my
previous message. What I mean is that, say Icann decides that it should
green-light an accented .FR IDN domain as part of its generic domains
program, then what we've got effectively is a gTLD that's disguised as an
IDN ccTLD.

Bear in mind that many people around the world wonder why .ASIA or .CAT are
Icann-sanctionned gTLDs rather than being products of their respective
geographic communities like .EU for example...

Cheers,

Stéphane Van Gelder
Directeur Général / General manager
INDOM ? Noms de domaine / Domain names
124-126, rue de Provence
75008 Paris. France
0820 77 7000
(Prix d'un appel local)
De l'étranger (calling from outside France): + 33 1 76 70 05 67
www.indom.com www.stephanevangelder.com




-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] De la part de Thomas Keller
Envoyé : mardi 22 janvier 2008 13:55
À : 'Stéphane Van Gelder'; 'Tim Ruiz'
Cc : 'Registrars Constituency'
Objet : AW: [registrars] Further summary of the GNSO Council Meeting 17 Jan
2008



Hi,

just for clarification, there is no such thing as ccTLDs that are actually
ICANN-sanctioned gTLDS. From an ICANN viewpoint ccTLDs are TLDs that derive
from the ISO 3166 list and which are delegated to independent community
representatives of that respective country or representatives of the
respective government. As these representatives are free to determine their
policies there are also free to choose there registry provider and their
distribution chanel as just happend with .me.

The broader question is how the introduction of IDNs will change the the
views on what will be a considered a ccTLD and therefore managed by the
CCNSO or a gTLD. Another question would be how we as registrars can take
part in CCNSO decision processes.

Best,

tom

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im Auftrag von Stéphane Van Gelder
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Januar 2008 17:55
An: 'Tim Ruiz'
Cc: 'Registrars Constituency'
Betreff: RE: [registrars] Further summary of the GNSO Council Meeting 17 Jan
2008

Tim,

If we're moving towards pseudo IDN ccTLDs that are actually
ICANN-sanctionned gTLDs, then I share your concerns.


Stéphane Van Gelder
Directeur Général / General manager
INDOM ? Noms de domaine / Domain names
124-126, rue de Provence
75008 Paris. France
0820 77 7000
(Prix d'un appel local)
De l'étranger (calling from outside France): + 33 1 76 70 05 67
www.indom.com www.stephanevangelder.com



-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] De la part de Tim Ruiz
Envoyé : lundi 21 janvier 2008 16:27
À : Stéphane Van Gelder
Cc : 'Registrars Constituency'
Objet : RE: [registrars] Further summary of the GNSO Council Meeting 17 Jan
2008


Stephane,

An accented .FR is one thing, but it seems that in some cases the fast
tracked IDN could go beyond that, as well as those comptemplated by
whatever broader policy might ultimately come out of the ccNSO PDP.

Tim


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [registrars] Further summary of the GNSO Council Meeting
17 Jan 2008
From: Stiphane_Van_Gelder <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, January 20, 2008 12:07 pm
To: "'Tim Ruiz'" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "'Registrars Constituency'"
<registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

>I am concerned because this further broadens the ccTLD universe beyond the
current two character codes >specified in ISO 3166, and may set a
precedent
used by the ccNSO PDP. A major question is what kind of >agreement with
ICANN will these fall under? If they fall under the existing loose ccTLD
framework >agreements then these new IDN name
>spacess:

>1. Will not required to comply with consensus policies as Accredited
Registrars and gTLD Registries are.
>2. Will not be required to use *only* Accredited Registrars, or to even use
them at all.
>3. Will have no ownership requirement limitations so they can own
registrars, registrars can own them, can >sell direct, etc.
>4. Will have no requirement to fund ICANN through transactional fees or any
other method.

Hello Tim,

I was surprised to read your comments highlighted above.
I hope I'm not misunderstanding what you're saying, but to me it seems
perfectly normal to have ccTLDs that are operating outside the system of
registrars accredited by ICANN for gTLDs.
If a ccTLD registry gets assigned an IDN ccTLD, then it should be
handled by
its own accredited registrars. For example, if AFNIC gets assigned the
accented version of .FR, AFNIC accredited registrars would certainly not
expect to have to go through an ICANN registration process to sell it.
In actual fact, as an AFNIC board member, I think I can say with a
certain
amount of certainty that AFNIC would probably object to having ICANN
decide
whether it should manager an accented .FR or not.


Stiphane Van Gelder
Directeur Giniral / General manager
INDOM - Noms de domaine / Domain names
124-126, rue de Provence
75008 Paris. France
0820 77 7000
(Prix d'un appel local)
De l'itranger (calling from outside France): + 33 1 76 70 05 67
www.indom.com
www.stephanevangelder.com



-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] De la part de Tim Ruiz
Envoyi : vendredi 18 janvier 2008 14:41
@ : Registrars Constituency
Objet : [registrars] Further summary of the GNSO Council Meeting 17 Jan
2008


As Tom forwarded, Avri was confirmed for another term as Chair of the
GNSO.

A group of Councilors will be formulating the next steps for the Tasting
PDP, due by the Meeting in New Delhi for Council consideration.

A group of Councilors and possibly one or two others will be considering
the reports of the Transfers WG and recommending a way forward on the
issues raised and prioritized in those reports.

Registrar Councilors will be involved in both groups.

Another issue that I believe should be of concern to the RC and watched
closely is the Fast Track process for .IDNs being developed by IDNC WG
of the ccNSO:
http://ccnso.icann.org/workinggroups/idncwg.htm

This process will be used to assign one .IDN to ccTLD managers before
completion of the ccPDP on IDN ccTLDs. The .IDN will be a localized
version of their ccTLD.

I am concerned because this further broadens the ccTLD universe beyond
the current two character codes specified in ISO 3166, and may set a
precedent used by the ccNSO PDP. A major question is what kind of
agreement with ICANN will these fall under? If they fall under the
existing loose ccTLD framework agreements then these new IDN name
spacess:

1. Will not required to comply with consensus policies as Accredited
Registrars and gTLD Registries are.
2. Will not be required to use *only* Accredited Registrars, or to even
use them at all.
3. Will have no ownership requirement limitations so they can own
registrars, registrars can own them, can sell direct, etc.
4. Will have no requirement to fund ICANN through transactional fees or
any other method.

This expansion of the ccTLD namespace is being done completely within
the ccNSO WG and PDP with only comment opportunities by the rest of the
stakeholders actually affected by the outcome, and in particular the
Registrars and Registries who should be concerned about the unbalancing
of the competitive environment this expansion could create if these new
namespaces are not under the same rules and restrictions as gTLDs are
and new gTLDs and IDN gTLDs will be.

The ccNSO WG Fast Track initial report will be posted for comment in the
next few weeks. I encourage anyone concerned as I am to be sure and look
at this issue closely and comment. It may also be worthwhile for the RC
as a whole to also comment.

The Issue Report for ccNSO PDP itself on this topic can be commented on
until 25 Jan 2008:
http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement-19dec07.htm


Tim