RE: [registrars] Godaddy locks domains in for 60 days after a rant change

["Rob Hall" <rob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Ok .. I have a question.  And this is in no way trying to say Godaddy is
doing anything wrong here, nor comment on their procedures or policies,
I am just taking a poke at what I hope is an obvious question.
 
If the Lock in question is at the voluntary contractual provision level,
and the registrant is "requesting you to review it", would you not
always remove it upon request of the Registrant ?  Or is the lock not
voluntary ?  (or I guess, one could say that once they have agreed to
the contractual provision, it can not be undone ...)
 
But on the broader note, I wonder aloud at which point a Registrar can
impose it's own contractual provisions that override policies like the
transfer policy.  It would not be hard for a Registrar to put into place
a non-transfer provision that lasts lets say 180 days, or a year after a
renewal or other domain event.  
 
Or how about we just start charging a $50 admin fee to handle the
transfer away.  This fee would become due the second the transfer was
applied for, so it would be a case of money owing on the existing domain
registration which would allow for the transfer to be denied.  hmmm.
 
It seems to me that this may be a slippery slope to start down, given
that the intent of the Transfer Policy is to facilitate and promote
competition between Regsitrars.  This has to be tempered with adequate
security for our customers to ensure we are doing what they want.
 
But I suspect that once we are in an auth-code world at the end of this
month, that all should get much easier.  The losing registrar should
lose the ability to NAK a transfer at all, if the customer has provided
a valid auth-code. Hopefully, we get to a place where the transfer is
immediate, and domains can no longer be "locked" from transfering.  If
you have the code, it goes.  If you don't, it doesn't.  Then we will
have a fair and open transfer system that promotes competition.
 
But I suspect even this will take some time to work itself out.
 
Rob.
 
 
 
 

________________________________

From: owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tim Ruiz
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:57 PM
To: Larry Erlich
Cc: Mark Jeftovic; Registrars Constituency; Richard Lau;
markjr@xxxxxxxxxxx; jwesterdal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [registrars] Godaddy locks domains in for 60 days after a
rant change


It may in some cases. While we try to build intelligent systems we
haven't completely accomplished AI yet :)
 
Basically, if the system thinks the ownership has changed, it will
trigger the lock. However, if we're requested to review it and we find
it was just something like correcting typos we will usually unlock it.
In some cases we might do a little more due dilligence to be certain.


Tim 




	-------- Original Message --------
	Subject: Re: [registrars] Godaddy locks domains in for 60 days
after a
	rant    change
	From: Larry Erlich <erlich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	Date: Fri, October 06, 2006 10:11 am
	To: Tim Ruiz <tim@xxxxxxxxxxx>
	Cc: Mark Jeftovic <markjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>, Registrars Constituency
	<registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Richard Lau <richard@xxxxxxx>,
	markjr@xxxxxxxxxxx, tim@xxxxxxxxxxx, jwesterdal@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
	
	"I'm noticing that after a Godaddy user moves a domain to
another 
	Godaddy account, or changes the registrant info of a domain,
they are 
	enforcing a 60-day no transfer-out rule."
	
	Tim,
	
	If a registrant makes a minor typographical change to
	the registrant name is that enough for your system to
	trigger the lock?
	
	Larry Erlich
	
	http://www.DomainRegistry.com
	
	Tim Ruiz wrote:
	> Both are incorrect. It involves a separate and voluntary
agreement 
	> between us and the new registrant in regards to a completely
optional 
	> process. We have just as many customers who decide to transfer
first, 
	> then change the ownership. Our only concern is in protecting
the 
	> interests of our customers and ensuring secure transfers of
ownership.
	> 
	> Tim
	> 
	> 
	>     -------- Original Message --------
	>     Subject: Re: [registrars] Godaddy locks domains in for 60
days after a
	>     rant    change
	>     From: Mark Jeftovic <markjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
	>     Date: Thu, October 05, 2006 2:45 pm
	>     To: Richard Lau <richard@xxxxxxx>
	>     Cc: Registrars Constituency <registrars@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	> 
	>     Yes, somebody else mentioned that to me off list, to which
I replied:
	> 
	>     I think that's a liberal interpretation of this paragraph:
	> 
	>     "A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to be
determined)
	>     after being transferred (apart from being transferred back
to the
	>     original Registrar in cases where both Registrars so agree
and/or where
	>     a decision in the dispute resolution process so directs)."
	> 
	>     Because in the next section the exclusions specifically
define the
	>     transfers as between registrars:
	> 
	>     "Instances when the re! quested change of Registrar may
not be denied
	>     include, but are not limited to: ...
	> 
	>     Domain name registration period time constraints, other
than during the
	>     first 60 days of initial registration or during the first
60 days after
	>     a registrar transfer."
	> 
	>     It could be that sloppy text in the first paragraph opened
the door to
	>     this. If a registrar is worried about the change of
registrant they
	>     should satisfy themselves before executing it, it's a
separate issue
	>     from a registrar transfer.
	> 
	>     This is just a tactic to try to keep the domain via
auto-renew or
	>     hoping
	>     the new owner is lazy and forgets after 60days and just
leaves it there.
	> 
	>     -mark
	> 
	>     Richard Lau wrote:
	>      > I could be wrong here, but I think the section where it
says:
	>      >
	>      > A domain name is within 60 days (or a lesser period to
be determined)
	>      > after being transferred (apart from being transferred
back to the
	>      > original Registrar in cases wh! ere both Registrars so
agree
	>     and/or where
	>      > a decision in the di spute resolution process so
directs).
	>      >
	>      > is being interpreted as:
	>      > A domain name is within 60 days after being
transferred.  
	>      > ... where the word "transferred" is used as transferred
between two
	>      > different registrants at the same Registrar.
	>      >
	>      > Probably not what the author(s) intended, but as we all
have
	>     seen, it's
	>      > the letter of the (ICANN) law, not the intent of the
law, that
	>     counts.
	>      >
	>      > Just my guess.
	>      >
	>      > Richard
	>      >
	>      >
	>      > On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 14:24:58 -0400, "Mark Jeftovic"
	>     <markjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
	>      > said:
	>      >
	>      >>I'm noticing that after a Godaddy user moves a domain
to another
	>     Godaddy
	>      >>account, or changes the registrant info of a domain,
they are
	>     enforcing
	>      >>a 60-day no transfer-out rule.
	>      >>
	>      >>I don't think that is permissable under the policy
posted at
	>      >>
	>      >>http://www.icann.org/transfers/polic! y-12jul04.htm
	>      >>
	>      >>Which only provides that the losing registrar can deny
a transfer
	>     if a
	>      >>domain is within 60 days of the initial reg period or
60 days of a
	>      >>previous registrar transfer.
	>      >>
	>      >>Has this come up before?
	>      >>
	>      >>
	>      >>-mark
	>      >>
	>      >>--
	>      >>Mark Jeftovic <markjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
	>      >>Founder & President, easyDNS Technologies Inc.
	>      >>ph. +1-(416)-535-8672 ext 225
	>      >>fx. +1-(866) 273-2892
	>      >
	>      >
	> 
	>     -- 
	>     Mark Jeftovic <markjr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
	>     Founder & President, easyDNS Technologies Inc.
	>     ph. +1-(416)-535-8672 ext 225
	>     fx. +1-(866) 273-2892 
	>