RE: [ga] ICANN Board can intervene to stop domain tasting for 1 year

["Dominik Filipp" <dominik.filipp@xxxxxxxx>]

Jeff,

do not dout, if you can ;-) After all, there is a remarkable progress
concerning this, the issue has been officially opened and is being quite
intensively discussed, at least on comment forums. The overall oposition
against tasting is getting stronger and wider support and cannot be
simply ignored. Sure, the BoD can eventually dismiss an effective
solution but this would hammer yet another nail in the coffin of ICANN
credibility. And I think they see it.

Dominik


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Jeffrey A. Williams
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 12:44 PM
To: ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: ICANN Domain name tasting; twomey@xxxxxxxxx; Peter Dengate Thrush
Subject: Re: [ga] ICANN Board can intervene to stop domain tasting for 1
year


Dominik and all,

  From a practical and credibility standpoint, I could care less, as I
am sure a number of Admins., registrants, and small business registrants
in particular, whether or not additional supervision is required or
additional effort is required as long as Front Running/ Tasting is
stopped immediately!  If indeed AGP is simple, straightforward, does not
require additional effort or supervision, fine, but I doubt that is the
actual case.

  What this all boils down to is a lack of ICANN staff willingness,
ability, and credibility to do the oversight it is charged with over its
Registries and Registrars.  RegistryFly proved that, and the immediate
aftermath emphasized same very clearly.  Of course as many of the Bod
approved policies have not had and do not have broad Stakeholder
support, it is by me, and could be understood well by others why this
paradigm is extant presently.

  What it appears that the ICANN staff want's to do is move up the
policy wonk ladder rather than do the actual WORK involved in
implementing and overseeing the policies it effects.
That's just poor leadership and worse credibility.

  Results and effect, trumps rhetoric and political correct policy
wonking every time!

Regards,

Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!)
"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
   Abraham Lincoln

"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very
often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt

"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;
liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]
===============================================================
Updated 1/26/04
CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail
jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx My Phone: 214-244-4827

Dominik Filipp wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> right. And the best method could be to eliminate the source of domain 
> tasting, which is the AGP concept. Simple, straightforward, not 
> requiring any additional effort or supervision.
>
> Dominik
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 11:25 PM
> To: Dominik Filipp
> Cc: George Kirikos; Roberto Gaetano; ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; ICANN Domain 
> name tasting; twomey@xxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [ga] ICANN Board can intervene to stop domain tasting for

> 1 year
>
> Dominik and all,
>
>   Although your approach has some merit, it only serves to encourage 
> further Domain name tasting which should be eliminated all together.
>
>   A better method to address Tasting is to require all registries that

> have the historical data of Tasted Domain names turn over that data to

> ICANN and have ICANN require that those Tasted domain names be turned 
> over or made not resolvable by the registry of record.
>
> Regards,
>
> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 277k members/stakeholders strong!)

> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -
>    Abraham Lincoln
>
> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is 
> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt
>
> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; 
> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by
> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."
> United States v. Carroll Towing  (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] 
> ===============================================================
> Updated 1/26/04
> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.
> div. of Information Network Eng.  INEG. INC.
> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail 
> jwkckid1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx My Phone: 214-244-4827
>
> Dominik Filipp wrote:
>
> > George,
> >
> > your math is basically correct, but there are several other factors 
> > worth noticing. Keep in mind that successful tasters have already 
> > built up a rich portfolio of extremely valuable names constantly 
> > bringing remarkable PPC revenue and make a fortune on auctions. That

> > is, successful tasters have already collected a big pocket out of 
> > which they can cover speculation costs under the 'new tasting model'
> > counting $0.20 fee in. No doubt it is a complication for tasters and

> > it will require redefinition of tasting activity but it still can be
> kept alive.
> > Although it decreases the overall number of tasted names the 
> > practice can be refined to stay workable. I can imagine that the 
> > average cost
> > $26.42 per successfully tasted domain/year can be considered 
> > acceptable for rich tasters at least for a certain period, say 1 
> > year,
>
> > during which the new model can be refined, calibrated and eventually

> > tuned up. They simply can afford it regardless of possible temporary
> financial loss.
> >
> > The characteristics of the new possibly viable tasting model 
> > considering the $0.20 re-registration fee could be:
> >
> > 1. Refinement of the domain selection model based on improving 
> > domain appraisal methods. The overall number of tasted domains has 
> > to be decreased but many domains can be found profitable for PPC or 
> > auction purposes. Remember, that tasters have gained a rich 
> > experience of financial history and profitability of many, many 
> > domains inspected so
>
> > far. No one else can compare with their ability to evaluate the 
> > market
>
> > power of domains.
> >
> > 2. Due to the mentioned above, various domain search techniques have

> > to be improved. The list of pending delete domains delivered in 
> > advance, an extended form of aggressive spy lookups to be developed,

> > the whois lookup lists massively ordered and delivered from 
> > registries... upon which the smart appraisal methods will be 
> > eventually applied to get a result list of domains suitable for
> tasting.
> >
> > 3. All names successfully sold on auctions or names bringing revenue

> > out of PPC advertising will then contribute to a 'risk budget'
> > supporting the tasting of such selected new domains. Once the 
> > positive
>
> > ballance is achieved, the tasting will survive.
> >
> > The number of tasted names under the new condition ($0.20 fee) will 
> > be
>
> > decreased, that is for sure. But it is not eliminated as a
phenomenon.
> > After a while, some tasting registrars can make the tasting methods 
> > effective enough to become successful in grabbing many valuable
names.
> > No one knows how many.
> >
> > As for the PIR's provision, even if applying the re-registration fee

> > for .ORG domains might (have) lead to the elimination of the tasting

> > effort for those domains, .COMs is a whole different thing. The 
> > importance of .COM and .ORG domains is simply uncomparable.
> >
> > Dominik
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: George Kirikos [mailto:gkirikos@xxxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 7:04 PM
> > To: Roberto Gaetano; Dominik Filipp; ga@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; 'ICANN 
> > Domain name tasting'
> > Cc: twomey@xxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: RE: [ga] ICANN Board can intervene to stop domain tasting 
> > for
>
> > 1 year
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > --- Roberto Gaetano <roberto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > Dominik Filipp wrote:
> > > I fully agree. $0.20 re-registration fee is an insufficient
> solution.
> > > I am
> > > always feeling some sort of domain speculation in mind when 
> > > listening to such proposals. If I cannot order a pizza and then 
> > > cancel the order
> >
> > > just paying $0.20 fine, why should have I an extra privilege 
> > > regarding
> >
> > > domain names?
> > >
> > > Agree.
> >
> > The economics of pizzas and domain names are entirely different. A 
> > pizza has labour, material and delivery costs that are far above 20 
> > cents. A domain name is an electronic record in a database where the

> > marginal costs are close to zero for the registry operator, far 
> > below
> 20 cents.
> >
> > A 20 cent fee would make any speculation totally uneconomic for 
> > domain
>
> > names. This is borne out by the fact that on the order of 99%+ of 
> > tasted domains get deleted during the AGP.
> >
> > Suppose that one tastes 1 million names. If 99% are deleted, and 1% 
> > are
> > kept:
> >
> > A] Tasting is free:
> > Cost to taster is 10,000 * $6.62 + 990,000 * $0 = $66,200 (in first 
> > year).
> >
> > B] Non-refundable 20 cent fee:
> > Cost to taster is 10,000 * $6.62 + 990,000 * $0.20 = $264,200
> >
> > The cost to the taster has increased by 300%. On a per successful 
> > name
>
> > basis, the average cost is now $26.42.
> >
> > The numbers are even more horrible to the taster if the ratio is 
> > 99.7%
>
> > (i.e. 1 in 300 profitable names), etc.
> >
> > The risk/reward is also entirely different. Under "A", there is 
> > essentially zero risk to the taster, because suppose that less than 
> > 1%
>
> > of the names were profitable, then their costs scale linearly with 
> > the
>
> > number of good names they discover. Under "B", if in a scan of 1 
> > million names they find a tiny amount of good names, they're still 
> > on the hook for a minimum of $200,000. Now the payoff is entirely 
> > non-linear, and the risk/reward ratio is terrible.
> >
> > PIR has essentially eliminated tasting in .org with their 
> > non-refundable fee. The same would happen in .com/net should ICANN 
> > move forward. It's simple economics, which the automated tasters 
> > understand, but it seems some folks don't.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > George Kirikos
> > http://www.kirikos.com/