[dow1tf] Whois task force 1 draft minutes/notes 13 January, 2004

["GNSO SECRETARIAT" <gnso.secretariat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

[To: DOW1tf[at]gnso.icann.org]

Attached, please find the minutes of the Whois 1 task force call held on
January 13, 2004.

Please let me know what changes or additions you would like made.

Thank you,

Glen de Saint Géry
GNSO secretariat

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<p align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>WHOIS Task Force 
  1 Teleconference January 13, 2004 - Minutes</b></font></p>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">ATTENDEES:<br>
  </font></b></p>
<p><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">GNSO Constituency representatives:<br>
  </font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">gTLD Registries constituency: 
  - Jeff</font><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Neuman</font><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 
  - </font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Chair</font><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
  </font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">gTLD Registries constituency 
  </font><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">- </font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">David 
  Maher</font><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">(alternate)</font><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
  </font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Commercial and Business 
  Users constituency - David Fares <br>
  Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Jeremy Banks</font> <b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
  </font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Internet Service and Connectivity 
  Providers constituency: - Antonio Harris</font><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
  </font></b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Registrars Constituency 
  - Elana Broitman (alternate)<br>
  Registrars Constituency - Paul Stahura (speaker)<br>
  Non Commercial Users Constituenc - Milton Mueller<br>
  <br>
  <b>Liaisons:</b><br>
  At-Large Advisory Committee (ALAC) liaisons - Thomas Roessler<br>
  <b>GNSO Secretariat:</b> Glen de Saint G&eacute;ry <br>
  <br>
  <b>Absent:<br>
  </b>Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - John Wolfe (alternate)<br>
  Commercial and Business Users constituency - Marilyn Cade (alternate)</font><br>
  <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>ICANN Staff Manager</b>: Barbara 
  Roseman</font> <br>
</p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Administration</b></font><br>
  <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Paul Stahura,</b> seconded by <b>David 
  Fares</b> proposed adopting the <a href="http://gnso.icann.org/meetings/minutes-dow1tf-06jan04.shtml";>minutes 
  of the January 6 teleconference.<br>
  </a>Minutes adopted.<br>
  <br>
  <b>Documents circulated:</b><br>
  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jeff Neuman referred to the 
  latest list of <a href="http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/dow1tf/msg00044.html";> 
  Non Marketing use contacts</a> for WHOIS data that he sent to the Task Force 
  1 mailing list.<br>
  The letter would go to all constituencies and the goal in sending to the non 
  marketing use contacts was to cover all contacts that had not been covered by 
  the constituencies. <br>
  <br>
  <b>Jeff Neuman</b> mentioned posting, the <a href="http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/dow1tf/msg00045.html";>FTC 
  document</a> (US Federal Trade Commission hearing) February 2003,which sets 
  out their use of WHOIS data and suggested that the document could either be 
  incorporated in the report, or the presenters could be sent the same set of 
  task force questions. <br>
  <br>
  <b>Milton Mueller </b>raised a question concerning the premise of the survey 
  and requested clarification on the purpose of the questionnaire. He understood 
  that the questions were to find out how much use was being made of WHOIS data 
  and how much of a load it put on the Registry. However, it appeared that the 
  survey was trying to distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate (marketing 
  users) of WHOIS data and <br>
  it was questionable whether the survey really allowed for that.<br>
  <br>
  <b>Jeff Neuman</b> stated that the purpose of the survey was to find out non 
  marketing uses of WHOIS data. Certain groups have been identified as using WHOIS 
  data for non marketing purposes, either through port 43, the web based access 
  or bulk access, but whether they use it for marketing or non marketing purposes 
  is irrelevant. The question is &quot;Why do you need it ? What are the needs? 
  Are these needs justified? How do you get it?<br>
  With the collected data an assessment could be made whether the needs and justifications 
  are legitimate, whether port 43 or web base or both are needed to access. Thus 
  the needs and justification chart was important at this stage.<br>
  <b>Milton Mueller</b> further commented that it was unclear how the next stage 
  of evaluating the justifications would be reached, how the marketing uses could 
  be shut off without effecting the non-marketing users thus the open ended question 
  7 <br>
  7) In your own words, please provide a brief justification of your usage of 
  the Whois data. Whois provides anonymous public access to individual users' 
  contact data and to registrars' customer lists. Why do you feel that your usage 
  and purposes warrant access to this data? <br>
  <a href="http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/dow1tf/msg00046.html";>Additional 
  questions</a>:<br>
  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">8) If you could not use Port 
  43 Whois data what would you use as the closest substitute? <br>
  9) Is the most important factor justifying your access to whois data: a) cost 
  b) convenience of immediate online access c) no other way to get the needed 
  data <br>
  <br>
  <b>Jeff Neuman</b> stated that groups could be added to those to which the letter 
  would be sent during the week 13/16 January, as long as information could be 
  obtained before the deadline, 2 weeks from the letter being sent out. The administrative 
  items in sending out the letter would be discussed.<br>
  <br>
  <b>Tony Harris</b> suggested sending the letter to the registrars asking them 
  to send it to the purchasers of the bulk data.<br>
  Discussion indicated the following points of view:<br>
  <b>Thomas Roessler</b> felt that it was unnecessary. <br>
  <b>Paul Stahura </b>commented from Enom's position that the quality of bulk 
  access purchasers were not so big and it would not swamp all users.<br>
  <b>Jeremy Banks</b> and <b>David Fares </b>were in favour of obtaining as much 
  information as possible, but the latter added that the task force should however 
  limit the analysis of the data gathered to the terms of reference.<br>
  There was general agreement that the registrars would be asked to send the questions 
  out to their bulk users and /or if they knew of anyone that used port 43, to 
  send to them as well.<br>
  There was general agreement that law enforcement bodies should be approached 
  as well as target law enforcement from non developed countries.<br>
  Tony Harris suggested reaching out to the Latin American Law enforcement community.<br>
  </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>The <a href="http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/dow1tf/msg00043.html";>letter</a><br>
  Paul Stahura </b>commented<b> </b>that the questions were aimed the use of port 
  43, how it was being obtained from the source and how the source was acting. 
  <br>
  From: ICANN Whois Taskforce 1 <br>
  Re: Your need for Whois information <br>
  To: [contact] <br>
  <br>
  Dear [contact] <br>
  <br>
  We're from ICANN and we're here to help you. ;-) <br>
  We are members of an ICANN Task Force investigating the use of Whois for data 
  mining. To help the task force develop policy recommendations about access to 
  Whois data, we are gathering information from organizations such as yours that 
  we understand are using or have used Whois information for various purposes. 
  <br>
  <br>
  Because your business or activities could be affected by our recommendations, 
  we encourage you to take a few moments to answer the questions below. Your input 
  will be greatly appreciated. Your submissions will not be shared beyond the 
  members of this task force. <br>
  <br>
  Please note that all questions pertain only to whois information which is the 
  name, email, street address, phone and other information about the registrant, 
  and the other contacts, of the domain name), and not to zone file information 
  which is the list of all domain names (with each name's name servers) registered 
  at the registry. <br>
  <br>
  1) How do you obtain the Whois information? <br>
  a. Via port-43 <br>
  b. Via the Web <br>
  c. Via bulk access licenses with ICANN accredited registrars. If the licenses 
  are not obtained from accredited registrars, please specify the type of entity: 
  _______________________________________ <br>
  d. Other/I don't know <br>
  <br>
  2) From whom do you obtain the Whois information? <br>
  a. Directly, from either a registrar or a registry <br>
  b. Indirectly (please specify the entity) <br>
  c. I don't know <br>
  <br>
  3) How do you disseminate the obtained Whois information (possibly compiled, 
  aggregated or combined with other information)?<br>
  a. Via port-43 (for example if you proxy/aggregate Whois data from a number 
  of sources and provide a port-43 feed to the public) <br>
  b. Via the web (for example, by displaying reports, or a web-based Whois query 
  interface) <br>
  c. Both a) and b) <br>
  d. It is not disseminated at all (for example, it is used internally)</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">e. Other. Please specify method: 
  ______________________________ <br>
  <br>
  4) Approximately how many Whois queries/lookups do you perform on average per 
  day? <br>
  a. Less than 10 <br>
  b. 10-100 <br>
  c. 100-1000 <br>
  d. More than 1000 <br>
  e. It varies too much to select the other options: some days it is many (say, 
  over 1000) and some days none<br>
  f. I don't know <br>
  <br>
  5) Do you store the Whois information? <br>
  a. Not at all <br>
  b. I cache queries for a short period (less than a week) <br>
  c. I store it for longer periods such as more than a week (for example, if you 
  obtain bulk Whois, you probably do this) <br>
  <br>
  6) Please indicate the general purposes of your use of Whois data (you may select 
  more than one item - choose as many as apply) <br>
  a. To facilitate law enforcement by public authorities <br>
  b. To facilitate intellectual property enforcement by trademark/copyright holders 
  <br>
  c. To obtain marketing data, for direct use or resale <br>
  d. For inter-registrar domain name transfers <br>
  e. To facilitate spam prevention <br>
  f. To operate a public information service <br>
  g. Statistical research on domain registrations, Internet users, etc. <br>
  h. Other: ___________________________________ <br>
  <br>
  7) In your own words, please provide a brief justification of your usage of 
  the Whois data. Whois provides anonymous public access to individual users' 
  contact data and to registrars' customer lists. Why do you feel that your usage 
  and purposes warrant access to this data? <br>
  <br>
  Thank you very much for your time and participation. <br>
  <br>
  Regards, <br>
  <br>
  ICANN Whois Taskforce 1 <br>
  <br>
  <b>Discussion:</b></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Jeff Neuman </b>suggested redoing 
  the introduction, adding a url to ICANN, &quot;Data mining&quot; should not 
  be mentioned.<br>
  Deadline for draft Thursday 15 January<br>
  <br>
  In the question order, easy questions should be put first.<br>
  <b>Question1:</b><br>
  Thomas Roessler suggested adding in question 1 :<br>
  Please choose those applicable<br>
  As well as adding some definition of port 43 and explaining web based<br>
  Suggested language was requested from the group.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Question 2</b> <br>
  2) From whom do you obtain the Whois information? <br>
  a. Directly, from either a registrar or a registry <br>
  b. Indirectly (please specify the entity) <br>
  c. I don't know <br>
  It was suggested that it should be a yes/no question<br>
  <br>
  What people are doing are with the data is understood but how they get it is 
  not always understood.<br>
  </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Question 3</b><br>
  3) How do you disseminate the obtained Whois information (possibly compiled, 
  aggregated or combined with other information)?<br>
  a. Via port-43 (for example if you proxy/aggregate Whois data from a number 
  of sources and provide a port-43 feed to the public) <br>
  b. Via the web (for example, by displaying reports, or a web-based Whois query 
  interface) <br>
  c. Both a) and b) <br>
  d. It is not disseminated at all (for example, it is used internally) <br>
  Suggested striking (c)<br>
  Breaking the question up into different questions</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Change to several questions:<br>
  3.) Do you disseminate the information?<br>
  4.) If so how do you disseminate this information?</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Trying to find out how many are acting 
  as proxies, but the question 4. should be made more specific.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do you make the information available? 
  Do you make individual entries available? Do you make a significant portion 
  of the data available? What channels do you make it available through etc. port 
  43, web based, down load.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Jeff Neuman </b>suggested that 
  people comment on the mailing list.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Change to question 6</b><br>
  Approximately how many Whois queries/lookups do you perform on average per day? 
  <br>
  a. Less than 10 <br>
  b. 10-100 <br>
  c. 100-1000 <br>
  d. More than 1000 <br>
  e. It varies too much to select the other options: some days it is many (say, 
  over 1000) and some days none<br>
  f. I don't know </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">The purpose was to find out if high 
  mining access was happening</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
  <b>Change the numbering to 7</b><br>
  Do you store the Whois information? <br>
  a. Not at all <br>
  b. I cache queries for a short period (less than a week) <br>
  c. I store it for longer periods such as more than a week (for example, if you 
  obtain bulk Whois, you probably do this) </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thomas suggested added &quot;routinely&quot; 
  and (c) should be left open</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
  <b>Change numbering to 8</b><br>
  6) Please indicate the general purposes of your use of Whois data (you may select 
  more than one item - choose as many as apply) <br>
  a. To facilitate law enforcement by public authorities <br>
  b. To facilitate intellectual property enforcement by trademark/copyright holders 
  <br>
  c. To obtain marketing data, for direct use or resale <br>
  d. For inter-registrar domain name transfers <br>
  e. To facilitate spam prevention <br>
  f. To operate a public information service <br>
  g. Statistical research on domain registrations, Internet users, etc. <br>
  h. Other: ___________________________________ <br>
  <br>
  <b>Jeremy Banks </b>suggested adding in (b): </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 
  trade mark /copyright holders or their designated representatives<br>
  Should perhaps add another category, purpose, for resale of WHOIS information.<br>
  Accurate answer for parties that do not facilitate, would be &quot;sell&quot;</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Suggested for (b) For development 
  of products or services that facilitate intellectual property enforcement...<br>
  <br>
  (c) should be used a cross check and retain only &quot;marketing&quot;</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">7) In your own words, please provide 
  a brief justification of your usage of the Whois data. Whois provides anonymous 
  public access to individual users' contact data and to registrars' customer 
  lists. Why do you feel that your usage and purposes warrant access to this data? 
  <br>
  Jeff Neuman questioned the value of the question<br>
  <br>
  <b>Additional question:</b></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you could not use port 43 access 
  what would you use as the closest substitute?</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is the most important factor in getting 
  WHOIS data<br>
  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">a) costs<br>
  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">b) convenience<br>
  c) no other way to get data<br>
  <br>
  <b>Next Call January 20, 2004</b></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Suggested language changes should 
  be made to the questions via the mailing list.<br>
  Circulate the draft once the changes have been made<br>
  The questions should be sent out by the end of the week, Friday 16 January.<br>
  Coordination of all dissemination of information through ICANN Staff.<br>
  <br>
  Needs and justification chart to be discussed on next call.</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b><br>
  </b></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b> </b></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>Jeff Neuman thanked everyone for 
  their presence and participation and ended the call at 17:35 UTC.<br>
  <br>
  </b> <b>Next call: Tuesday 20 January 2004, </b> <b>16:00 UTC, 11:00 EST, 8:00 
  Los Angeles, 17:00 CET.<br>
  <br>
  <br>
  </b></font></p>
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