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RE: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues
- To: "Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Subject: RE: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues
- From: john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 09:02:23 -0500
- Cc: "council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "jrobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <jrobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "'avri'" <avri@xxxxxxx>
- List-id: council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Sender: owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<p dir="ltr">This all makes sense.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Berard</p>
<div class="quote">On Nov 28, 2013 8:48 AM, "Gomes, Chuck"
<cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:<br type='attribution'><blockquote
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
all of you will accept some thoughts on this from a Temporary Alternate, here
are some suggestions I would like to make.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
don’t think it is wise for us to think of this as an NCSG/ALAC initiative
unless they suggest otherwise. I believe it is a Fadi initiative that the
NCSG
and ALAC picked up on and many of the rest of us didn’t; I am not sure why
that is the case but it would be interesting to find out. I would be
curious to know what session it was when Fadi suggested this. At ICANN
in-person meetings there are always multiple
conflicts so we don’t all attend the same sessions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Going
forward, I think it would be best if we joined in and try to make it a
productive effort rather than spending time worrying about how it came
about.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In
my opinion, all of this illustrates the problem of staff initiating efforts in
a public setting without involving existing mechanisms and processes. It
results in confusion and feelings of disenfranchisement by some members of the
community. This doesn’t mean that initiating things like this needs to
take a lot of time, but I believe that before doing so in a public session, it
would help a lot if staff
would talk to the leaders of the various SOs and ACs so they are not
blindsided and even better so that a simple plan can be devised for a quick
rollout, bottom-up instead of top-down. Moreover, bottom-up doesn’t have
to mean slow if existing leadership structures
are used.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
think Avri describe this very well in saying “. .
</span>at this point we are so far beyond the bottom-up principle on so many
aspects of ICANN actions, I find that it is a principle mostly honored in the
breech.<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chuck<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jonathan Robinson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 28, 2013 5:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'avri'; council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance
Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks
Amr & Avri,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
understood Fadi’s invitation similarly to you Avri and, personally, can see
the NCSG / ALAC initiative for what it seems to be i.e. a good faith
attempt to jump on the train before it leaves the
station.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Also,
I certainly do not believe any SG/C needs the Council’s blessing or permission
to participate. Where the Council MAY be able to help is
assisting with the communication / co-ordination to ensure all GNSO groups are
fully aware of what is going on and any recent background. This thread
seems to have been helpful in that context.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
avri
<a href="mailto:[mailto:avri@xxxxxxx]";>[mailto:avri@xxxxxxx]</a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 28 November 2013 00:52<br>
<b>To:</b> <<a
href="mailto:council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance
Issues<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Hi <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I had understood it that Fadi invited
the whole community to do something. So, it wasn't that he specifically invited
the non commercials of NCSG and users of ALAC, but rather that like everyone
else we heard the invitation
at the Wednesday early morning meeting, and decided to act on
it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">In doing so, the idea was, we saw the
train leaving and we figured we would jump on before it left without us. We
also extended an invitation for all other SG/C to join us when we announced in
the forum that we had taken
up the offer and gotten the ball rolling.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Rafik, the NCSG chair and Olivier the
ALAC chair are currently facilitating this effort. I suggest other SG/C
talk to them about joining in the effort if interested. I also understand
that some may decide to stand aside
from this CWG on bottom-up principle. I can respect that. But at this point we
are so far beyond the bottom-up principle on so many aspects of ICANN actions,
I find that it is a principle mostly honored in the
breech.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I appreciate that Sally accepted that
this effort was the start of response to their request for community
participation. I also see no reason why on a cross community wg, NCSG should
need the council's permission to
participate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:9.0pt">avri<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:9.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:9.0pt">Sent from a
T-Mobile 4G LTE Device<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original message --------<br>
From: Amr Elsadr <<a
href="mailto:aelsadr@xxxxxxxxxxx";>aelsadr@xxxxxxxxxxx</a>> <br>
Date: 11/27/2013 19:15 (GMT-05:00) <br>
To: John Berard <<a
href="mailto:john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>>
<br>
Cc: "<<a
href="mailto:jrobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx";>jrobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx</a>>"
<<a
href="mailto:jrobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx";>jrobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx</a>>,"<<a
href="mailto:council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>>"
<<a href="mailto:council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>>
<br>
Subject: Re: [council] CWG on Internet Govenrance Issues <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Jonathan and John,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The NCSG/ALAC meeting where this idea
was proposed started immediately following the Council wrap-up session. It was
not, to my knowledge, an initiative born from any invitation of any kind nor
imposed by anyone from
the “top” or elsewhere. It was more of a discussion amongst civil society
actors within the ICANN community to coordinate efforts to ensure NCSG/ALAC
representation in whatever process leads up to the Brazil summit (or whatever
they’ve decided to call it)
in April 2014. In fact, one of the outputs of the meeting was a suggestion to
draft a joint NCSG/ALAC letter addressed to Fadi expressing a desire to engage
in the process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">During the meeting, it was also decided
that inviting the broader ICANN community to the discussion using a Wiki as a
platform for cross community input on the topic was a good idea. The term
“Cross-Community Working
Group” was used in an email message on an NCSG list, but I am not aware of any
actual WG or drafting team in the pipeline. Just a Wiki-based cross community
discussion platform. If this changes, if I learn something I do not know now,
or when the Wiki goes
online, I’ll be sure to send a note to all of you on the Council list to make
sure you’re all informed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Sound good?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Thanks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Amr<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">On Nov 27, 2013, at 7:22 PM, John
Berard <<a
href="mailto:john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx";>john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">Jonathan,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">The work of the drafting team
is aimed at creating an aligned PDP and reflects a bottom-up
sensibility<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">This CWG on Internet
Governance is more politics than policy and has been imposed from the
top,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">What I would like to know is
who issued the invitation to the ALAC and NCSG, what was the rationale and why
the NCSG accepted without consultation with the broader GNSO
of which they are a part?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">Were other ACs and SOs
invited? Did they decline?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">I am aware that I am veering
toward paranoia, but it's not inappropriate if they are really out to get
you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS">Berard<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:TrebuchetMS"><br>
On Nov 27, 2013, at 1:04 PM, "Jonathan Robinson" <<a
href="mailto:jrobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx";><span
style="color:purple">jrobinson@xxxxxxxxxxxx</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">At
the Council meeting wrap-up in Buenos Aires, we talked about GNSO
participation in the CWG on internet governance and the Council and/or GNSO
Council chair’s
otential role.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">At
the time, I don’t believe we were aware of the proposed role of ALAC / NCSG as
co-ordinators. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">I
think (from a Council perspective) we should probably now await the call for
further participation and respond to that, but I am open to any other
suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">We
could offer the CWG principles as they currently stand?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Jonathan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
</blockquote></div>
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