AW: POLICY vs. IMPLEMENTAION (was [council] FW: Letter from the GAC regarding IOC/RC Protections)

[<KnobenW@xxxxxxxxxx>]

I also agree that the boarder between policy and implementation is fluent. I 
wonder whether a clear delimitation would be achievable and solve the problems. 
In additon it is a question of the roles of GAC and GNSO: "advice" vs "support".
In Toronto I've been approached by GAC members asking to be better integrated 
into the policy development (process). I think we should take this into 
consideration. A liaison may be one solution to offer. There may be more ideas 
to discuss.


Best regards
Wolf-Ulrich



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Im 
Auftrag von Volker Greimann
Gesendet: Freitag, 30. November 2012 10:41
An: joy@xxxxxxx
Cc: Neuman, Jeff; Jonathan Robinson; council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Betreff: Re: POLICY vs. IMPLEMENTAION (was [council] FW: Letter from the GAC 
regarding IOC/RC Protections)


All,

I am in full agreement that a better definition of these terms is
necessary and I appreciate staffs efforts in this matter, even though I
think this needs broader community involvement. Definitely a session to
attend in Beijing, so I would urge staff not to schedule it concurrently
with other important sessions. One further consideration is the question
if policy "taints" (for lack of a better word; I mean it without the
negative connotations here) implementation. I would argue that even if a
decision is 90% implementation and 10% policy, it should be enveloped
under the umbrella of policy and therefore subject to GNSO approval.

Best,

Volker
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>
> Hi Jonathan and thanks for forwarding this.
> Jeff, this is an interesting idea which I've asked for comments on
> from our constituency group.
> I think it is a good idea to take a step back from the issues and look
> strategically at what is happening and why in the GNSO relationship
> with the GAC. The examples you cite are symptoms, I agree, of a wider
> problem and they will simply keep happening if not resolved. I'm not
> convinced getting agreed definitions of "policy" vs "implementation"
> will resolve some of these issues. But if it is a measure to assist
> and has community support then the Council should consider it.
> Thanks for raising this
> Kind regards
> Joy
>
> On 30/11/2012 3:55 a.m., Neuman, Jeff wrote:
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> We have a very serious problem here that needs immediate attention.
>> I am not referring to the merits of whether any of these
>> organizations deserve protection or not, or whether there should be
>> additional safeguards for IP owners in the new gTLD process or
>> whether certain Whois Review team recommendations could be put into
>> place .  Forget all of that.  Forget the merits and substance of
>> these important issues.
>>
>>
>>
>> The real issue is that new reliance on the terms "policy" vs.
>> "implementation."  This is the issue that should receive top
>> priority. To quote Alan Greenberg (or at least paraphrase), when
>> one group wants something in place without using the policy
>> process, they call it "implementation."  Those that oppose it, call
>> it "policy."  While that statement was made several times by Alan
>> partly in jest, that statement does have merit.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lets look at the following 3 examples:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.       _ IOC/RC_- As the letter sent around by Jonathan shows,
>> the GAC is thoroughly annoyed with the GNSO for starting a policy
>> process on the protection of IOC and Red Cross marks.  They believe
>> (although unstated), that they have exclusive jurisdiction over
>> these types of public policy issues and do not want the GNSO to
>> take "years" to work out whether these organizations (which they
>> believe are protected by law) should receive protections in the new
>> gTLD process.  Without commenting on the merits of this argument,
>> look at what they have done. They have called the protections as
>> nothing more than "implementation" and therefore, the GNSO should
>> explain itself as to why we believe we have a right to start a
>> policy process on it.  After all, implementation can just be
>> enacted by the Board.  There is no need for the GNSO to get
>> involved, in their view...nor do they want it.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2.       _Whois Review Team_:  The ICANN Board sought guidance from
>> the entire Internet community on whether the recommendations
>> involved "implementation" or "policy".  Why? Because if it is
>> implementation, there is no need to involve the GNSO community and
>> it can just be enacted.  Those that supported the recommendations
>> wholeheartedly called them "implementation."  Those that opposed
>> the recommendations called it "policy."  I believe that many who
>> called it policy actually truly believe there are policy issues
>> involved, but some called it policy, to have it go through the long
>> drawn out process we call a PDP (with the hopes that it dies a slow
>> death).  Neither side of this debate is blameless.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3.       _The now infamous New gTLD "straw-man"_:  For the record,
>> I was a part of the group that discussed the straw man in Brussels
>> and LA over the past few weeks.  I found those discussions very
>> useful and appreciate the efforts being made by the new ICANN CEO,
>> who I have a tremendous amount of respect for.  I believe he truly
>> will make a huge positive impact on ICANN for many years to come.
>> But, now the debate has turned into what is policy and what is
>> implementation.  The IPC/BC and their representatives have called
>> all of their proposals "implementation".   The NCSG, Registries,
>> Registrars and Applicants have called much of it policy.  ICANN
>> staff has now weighed in on their thoughts and have classified
>> certain items as implementation (thereby negating the need for GNSO
>> policy development), and other items as policy, thereby requiring
>> extensive involvement from the GNSO community - note I did NOT say
>> necessarily PDP).
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe we all need to take a step back from the issues
>> _immediately_ and decide once and for all an agreed upon bottom-up
>> multi-stakeholder definition of what is "policy" and what is
>> "implementation."  Or at the very least a framework for making that
>> assessment when issues arise.  I would advocate for a cross
>> community group made up of members from ICANN staff, the GNSO, the
>> GAC and others to come together to figure this issue out, so that
>> we get out of this rut we are now in.  At the same time, we need to
>> fix the image of the GNSO policy processes so that they are no
>> longer feared, but embraced.  They need to not be used as vehicles
>> for delay, but rather utilized for the common good.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we are able to do this, I believe many of the issues we are now
>> having will become easier to resolve (and we can focus on the
>> merits). If not, I see these issues getting much worse over the
>> coming months/years.  I believe the future of the GNSO, and even
>> the multi-stakeholder model in general hinge on the definition of
>> these 2 words.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would be very happy to volunteer to serve on such a group.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Jeffrey J. Neuman** **Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Business
>> Affairs*
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:owner-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan
>> Robinson *Sent:* Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:00 AM *To:*
>> council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx *Subject:* [council] FW: Letter from the GAC
>> regarding IOC/RC Protections
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> FYI.  Please see the attached letter received from the GAC last
>> night my time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*GAC Secretariat [mailto:gacsec@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *Sent:* 28
>> November 2012 21:38 *To:* jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:jonathan.robinson@xxxxxxxxxxx> *Cc:* Steve Crocker; Fadi
>> Chehade; Heather Dryden; Maria Häll; alice@xxxxxxx
>> <mailto:alice@xxxxxxx>; Choon Sai LIM (IDA) *Subject:* Letter from
>> the GAC regarding IOC/RC Protections
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent on behalf of Heather Dryden, GAC Chair
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Jonathan,
>>
>>
>>
>> Attached please find a letter from the GAC regarding IOC and Red
>> Cross/Red Crescent protections.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeannie Ellers
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeannie Ellers Manager, GAC Coordination Internet Corporation for
>> Assigned Names and Numbers 1101 New York Avenue NW, Suite 930
>>
>> Washington, DC 20005 Ph. +1 202 570 7135 M. +1 310 302 7552
>>
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