Re: [council] Question.

[Stéphane Van Gelder <stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx>]

Carlos,

If you go back on the call transcript, you will see that I did not accept or 
refuse anything. Thomas had sent his proxy. That fact was read out during roll 
call. You did not object, nor did anyone else. 

Not having all the rules in my head at any given time and not hearing any 
objections, I did not anticipate a possible problem.

As to what should be done now, as there were no objections on the call, and no 
objections since the call until your questions yesterday whilst the call was on 
November 17 so nearly a full month ago, I am of the mind that no further action 
should be taken.

I would also stress that on this specific issue, the whole Council's attention 
was drawn to Thomas' proxy by a question from Wolf right after Glen finished 
the roll call. The question was on a different matter, but it does show that 
there was plenty of opportunity to voice concerns at the time. None was heard.

Moreover, had you voted in Mason's stead, whatever your vote it would have made 
no difference to motion 1 and no difference to motion 2. Those were the only 
two motions considered at the meeting (motion 3 was deferred).

I would therefore recommend that we let sleeping dogs lie here, and concentrate 
on today's meeting.

Thanks,

Stéphane



Le 15 déc. 2011 à 14:16, carlos dionisio aguirre a écrit :

> Stephane . Thanks for your prompt response, you are very smart and 
> inteligent. But, I consider the issue is not so simple. And with all my 
> respect I allow myself to say the following:
> The point is not only "Thomas gave his proxy to Mason", the point is that was 
> against the our established OR&P (on my humble point of view), and this is so 
> serious, because on my point of view also, somebody must assume the lack of 
> responsability to approve that conduct, thats the point to have in account.
> When we have rules, nobody can do what they want. For that was my question:
>  #1 why do you accept..... against the rules? Are you or any councilor or 
> even the council, capable to change our rules, or give authorization to 
> "jump" some rule? Who is responsible for this situation?
> 
> And this, generate another issue: if there are anybody in the call against 
> what rules say. What happen with the resolution taken in the teleconference? 
> are valids? this is another point to take in consideration, and I personaly 
> consider is no a simple thing.
> 
> in response to the last paragraph of your answer, I agree with you. On this 
> sense and without intention to disturb the call,  I made a comment to Wolf by 
> private chat. Obviously, my idea is help to build a better GNSO.
> 
> Carlos Dionisio Aguirre
> NCA GNSO Council - ICANN
> former ALAC member by LACRALO
> Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios
> Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
> *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
> http://ar.ageiadensi.org 
> 
> 
> Subject: Re: [council] Question.
> From: stephane.vangelder@xxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 12:15:39 +0100
> CC: council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: carlosaguirre62@xxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> Carlos,
> 
> Thomas gave his proxy to Mason. Perhaps you should enquire with him as to why 
> he did not give it to you, if you feel that was unfair.
> 
> On the second point, this is my read of the rules. The secretariat (Glen) 
> should feel free to correct me if I am wrong. But to me, your read is wrong. 
> There are 7 councillors (including the NCA) in the CPH. To me, a majority is 
> more than half, so 4. If there is another read to the word majority, I do not 
> see it defined in the rules. One thing seems certain to me however, and that 
> is that majority does not mean the total number of available councillors, as 
> you suggest. The rules also say there must be at least one councillor from 
> each SG. At the very least I was on the call and so was Jeff Neuman. That's 
> one from each SG in the CPH.
> 
> Finally, a more general point. When you have valid questions of this kind, I 
> feel it would be more helpful to state them during the meeting, so that 
> something can be done immediately. I would appreciate your support, and the 
> support of anyone on the Council, in helping to make the meetings run both 
> smoothly and according to our rules. And because one person can't do 
> everything at once, it is helpful if you spot something that you feel is not 
> within the parameters of those rules, to mention it as constructive criticism 
> while the meeting is in flow. That way, if there really is a problem, it can 
> be remedied at once.
> 
> Stéphane
> 
> 
> 
> Le 15 déc. 2011 à 00:17, carlos dionisio aguirre a écrit :
> 
> 
> Stephane .
> First of all I want to apologize by my ignorance if it the case. Second I 
> ask, in order to learn more. I ask the question to whom I consider is the 
> person capable to give me answers.
> Going directly to the point, I have to say that I have a few doubts in 
> relation with the past teleconference call quorum. My specific doubt is 
> about, differents points:
> 
> 
> 1- Why did you accept the proxy given by Thomas Rickert to Mason Cole, being 
> Thomas a NCA, and having in account that our OR&P, the specific rule say:
> 
> 3.8 Absences and Vacancies
> 3.8.4 Remedy: Temporary Alternate
> a. For a Councilor who is not appointed by the Nominating Committee, the 
> appointing
> organization may, at its discretion, name a Temporary Alternate to serve in 
> the absent
> or vacant Councilor’s seat.
> b. For a voting NCA, the Council non-voting NCA is immediately activated to 
> serve as
> a Temporary Alternate subject to provisions in Section 4.7-Temporary 
> Alternate. The
> communication required pursuant to Section 4.8-Procedures, Paragraph b, if it 
> cannot
> be submitted by the voting NCA, will be completed and forwarded by the 
> non-Voting
> NCA.
> -----------------------
> 2- I understand (correct me if Im wrong) The Quorum needed to session in case 
> of CPH is 7 Councilors present, all of this according
> Chapter 4.0: Voting
> 4.1 Quorum
> In order for the GNSO Council to initiate a vote, a quorum must be present. A 
> quorum is a
> majority of voting members in each House, which must include at least one 
> member of each
> Stakeholder Group.
> 
> In case of the past teleconference call I can see on the transcript record 
> only 6 councilors present & the proxy y (given badly in my point of view) by 
> Thomas to Mason,
> List of attendees:
> Contracted Parties House
> Registrar Stakeholder Group: Stéphane van Gelder, Mason Cole, Yoav Keren
> gTLD Registries Stakeholder Group: Jeff Neuman, Jonathan Robinson, Ching 
> Chiao- – absent, apologies, proxy to Jeff Neuman
> Nominating Committee Appointee (NCA): Thomas Rickert – absent, apologies 
> proxy to Mason Cole
> 
>  Could you explain me what was the procedure to session?
> ------------------------------------
> 3 - In a hypothetical case that proxy was bad given (having in account the 
> rules mentioned), what is the solution for votes in each motion debated on 
> the call?
> 
> others clauses applicable in my point of view, for this case are:
> Chapter 4.0: Voting
> 4.1 Quorum
> In order for the GNSO Council to initiate a vote, a quorum must be present. A 
> quorum is a
> majority of voting members in each House, which must include at least one 
> member of each
> Stakeholder Group........b. Quorum
> An absent Council member does not count toward quorum even if a proxy has been
> established. A Temporary Alternate (see Section 4.7-Temporary Alternate 
> below) if
> present, would count toward quorum. 
> (4.6 Proxy Voting
> An abstaining or absent Council member as defined above (the Proxy Giver) may 
> transfer his or
> her vote to any other Council member (the Proxy Holder).)  BUT
> c. Proxy Notification
> A proxy notification must be sent to the GNSO Secretariat and should indicate 
> which
> type it is. The notification should, where applicable, be sent by the Proxy 
> Giver's
> appointing organization. Ordinarily a proxy notification must be received by 
> the
> GNSO Secretariat before the start of the relevant meeting.
> 
> 1 The term “appointing organization” (see Section 1.3.1) does not comprise 
> the Nominating Committee; therefore,
> the Voting Direction remedy does not apply to House NCAs.
> 
> 1.3 Definitions
> 1.3.1 An “appointing organization” is defined to be the Stakeholder Group or 
> Constituency that
> elected or appointed a representative to the GNSO Council1. Note that, for 
> the purposes
> of these procedures, the Nominating Committee is not considered an “appointing
> organization.”
> 
> Im  asking you because I sent to Wolf a private chat during the 
> teleconference, and Im still waiting your response (probably he may have not 
> seen it).
> At the end, I want give my thanks in advance for time and the explanation 
> that you can give me. 
> 
> Carlos Dionisio Aguirre
> 
> NCA GNSO Council - ICANN
> former ALAC member by LACRALO
> Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios
> Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
> *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
> http://ar.ageiadensi.org
> 
>