Re: [council] Motion to approve AOC endorsement

[William Drake <william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Wolf-Ulrich,

I was just about to come back to this, you beat me to the punch.  Having had 
the opportunity yesterday to hear a bit more on the thinking, I guess I'm still 
of the view I shared on the last council call, since:

1. We had a drafting team comprising reps of all SGs that worked 
collaboratively and agreed a text. This was on the table for some time 
internally and then in the Council before concerns were expressed just prior to 
consideration of the motion.  IMO, the DT having done what was asked of it, its 
text deserves a chance to be voted on.

2.  I still don't see why it is necessary to codify the sequence in which 
Councilors may discuss possible additional diversity endorsements, or to limit 
the conditions under which they may discuss the whole pool of applicants.  I 
trust Councilors to of course talk first about candidates for whom SGs have 
expressed preferences, I can't imagine the conversation in which they'd refuse 
to.

3.  The drafting team was mandated to propose a process that could be used for 
RT endorsements going forward.  If subsequent experience suggests that it'd 
make sense to revisit and tweak the process, we would do that.  I don't see why 
we should assume at the front end that there will be problems and hence limit 
our agreement to just the next two RTs.

4.  As discussed in today's meeting, it has become clear in recent days that 
there a different views in play about the nature and proper role of the 
Council.  To the extent that the amendment is based one particular view, it 
seems premature to set that philosophical baseline in this instance.  We need 
to have a broader and more probing discussion of this somewhere down the line 
and see if we can come to some shared understanding.

So let's treat it as unfriendly and whatever Councilors decide in their SG 
representative capacities, fine.

Cheers,

Bill




On Jun 20, 2010, at 6:07 PM, <KnobenW@xxxxxxxxxx> <KnobenW@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Bill,
>  
> following the NCPH discussion on the topic: could you now accept the 
> amendment as friendly?
>  
> 
> Regards 
> Wolf-Ulrich
> 
>  
> 
> Von: Mary Wong [mailto:MWong@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. Juni 2010 06:39
> An: william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Knoben, Wolf-Ulrich
> Cc: rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx; council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx; cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Betreff: Re: AW: [council] Motion to approve AOC endorsement
> 
> FWIW I agree with Bill and Caroline that the motion, as it stands (or is that 
> stood?) does NOT prevent the Council from proposing/supporting/endorsing a 
> different process for future RTs. What it seems to me to do is to endorse a 
> baseline/default starting point that has the benefit of being uniform, clear 
> and resulting from the thoughtful efforts of the DT (on which all SGs were 
> represented).
>  
> I find it somewhat ironic - and perhaps a testimony to those who have 
> mentioned elsewhere that the question of what we as Councillors are meant to 
> do or be - that the question of whether (and to what extent) the Council is 
> acting as a "managerial" versus a legislative top-down body in the new GNSO 
> environment seems to be arising in various contexts recently. Regardless, I'm 
> having a bit of a hard time believing that Councillors elected by their SGs 
> would not do their best to fully represent that SG's interests, while 
> respecting the role of the Council and the need for consensus among the whole 
> ICANN community (even if this means, as is often the case, questioning or 
> proposing amendments to motions, as happened here. I fully believe that the 
> differences of opinion we are seeing on this issue is the result of various 
> Councillors balancing the demands and needs of their particular 
> SGs/constituencies with the overall effect to the community and the work of 
> the Cou
>  
> I understand that this may be more difficult - depending on the issue, for 
> instance - for certain SGs at certain points in time. However, and in this 
> particular context, I'm inclined to give greater weight to the deliberations 
> and recommendations of the DT, especially as it was a broadly representative 
> team and it remains open to us at a future date to require and/or justify a 
> different process.
>  
> Cheers
> Mary
>  
> Mary W S Wong
> Professor of Law & Chair, Graduate IP Programs
> Franklin Pierce Law Center
> Two White Street
> Concord, NH 03301
> USA
> Email: mwong@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Phone: 1-603-513-5143
> Webpage: http://www.piercelaw.edu/marywong/index.php
> Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at: 
> http://ssrn.com/author=437584
> 
> 
> >>>
> From: William Drake <william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To:   <KnobenW@xxxxxxxxxx>
> CC:   <cgomes@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <rafik.dammak@xxxxxxxxx>, 
> <council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 6/16/2010 6:43 PM
> Subject:      Re: AW: [council] Motion to approve AOC endorsement
> Hi Wolf-Ulrich,
> 
> On Jun 16, 2010, at 11:48 PM, <KnobenW@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>> As I tried to explain, the amended motion does not preclude using the same 
>> process after the next two RTs. But it doesn't cement it like some GNSO 
>> folks were feeling before
> 
> 
> A parallel small point, the unamended motion does not  preclude the Council 
> revisiting the process after the next two RTs if issues are identified that 
> merit tweak.  No cement or other building materials bind us to follow this or 
> any other process we don't prefer.
> 
>> This I guess is consistent with Kristina's earlier comments that Council " 
>> has been greatly restricted in the restructuring and the initially proposed 
>> mechanism goes beyond that role," and that "having a slightly more 
>> complicated process at the SG level is far preferable to having the Council 
>> take on an SG role and make nominations independent of the community."   But 
>> per previous I don't quite get the notion that elected representatives of 
>> SGs working together in Council are somehow separate from and would be 
>> acting above/independent of SGs in voting on endorsements.  Does that only 
>> hold here, or is it true of any and all Council decisions?   If we adopt 
>> this language, are we collectively establishing the premise that Council is 
>> not a representative body that can act on behalf of its constituents?  I'd 
>> think it important to be clear what we're saying here.  I understand CSG 
>> wants to talk about this Saturday in the non-contracted house meeting, which 
>> will presumably help, but it seems like a conversation for the wider Council 
>> and community too if for no other reason than the Council (?) will have to 
>> vote on it.
>>  
>> [WUK: ]  It is more about the question of the council's competences. 
>> According to the bylaws "The GNSO Council is responsible for managing the 
>> policy development process of the GNSO". Since the activities around the AoC 
>> could be seen as lying outside these competences it is advisable to 
>> ascertain the GNSO as a whole endorses the process. In other words: where 
>> the council competences are not in question we won't have such a discussion.
> 
> Determining whether the GNSO as a whole supports or opposes a particular 
> decision on our plate would be an interesting new requirement for Council 
> action.  We could, for example, henceforth require a consultation and 
> consensus formation on http://gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/ga-200709 
> before taking any action.  I'm sure there are some folks there who'd like to 
> weigh in.  But in lieu of such a requirement, Council representatives act in 
> accordance with the norms and customs of their respective communities and of 
> the democratically elected Council.  An interesting question then is whether 
> other SGs and the Council as a whole should set aside that approach, redefine 
> its role, and base its actions on any one SG's internal norms and dynamics.  
> I'm open to persuasion, but a priori this seems like an unusual foundation 
> for collective action.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> <IMAGE.jpg>

***********************************************************
William J. Drake
Senior Associate
Centre for International Governance
Graduate Institute of International and
 Development Studies
Geneva, Switzerland
william.drake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html
www.linkedin.com/in/williamjdrake
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