[council] GNSO Council/Whois combined tf meeting Luxembourg draft minutes 14 July 2005

["GNSO.SECRETARIAT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <gnso.secretariat@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

[To: council[at]gnso.icann.org]

Please find the draft minutes of the Whois combined task force and the 
GNSO Council meeting held in Luxembourg on 14 July 2005.
Please let me know if you would like anything changed.

Thank you.
Kind regards,

Glen
--
Glen de Saint Géry
GNSO Secretariat - ICANN
gnso.secretariat[at]gnso.icann.org
http://gnso.icann.org

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<h4 align="center"><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>WHOIS Task 
Forces 
  1 2 3<br>
  GNSO Council<br>
 Luxembourg meeting 
 <br>
  <br>
 14 July 2005 - Minutes</b></font></h4>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>ATTENDEES:<br>
  Combined task force members <br>
  </b> Jordyn Buchanan - Co-Chair<br>
  </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Registrars constituency - 
Paul Stahura<br>
  Registrars constituency - Tim Ruiz <br>
Registrars constituency - Tom Keller <br>
  Registrars constituency - Ross Rader<br>
Commercial and Business Users constituency - Marilyn Cade </font> <font 
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">  <br>
Commercial and Business Users constituency - David Fares<br>
  Internet 
  Service and Connectivity Providers constituency - Greg Ruth<b><br>
  </b>Internet Service and Connectivity Providers constituency: - Antonio 
Harris <b>  <br>
  </b>Internet Service and Connectivity Providers constituency - Maggie 
Mansourkia<b>  <br>
  </b>Non Commercial Users Constituency - Milton Mueller <b><br>
  </b>Intellectual Property Interests 
  Constituency - Steve Metalitz <br>
  Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Niklas Lagergren<br>
  Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Kyoshi Tsuru   <br>
  <strong>Liaisons</strong><br>
At-Large Advisory Committee (ALAC) liaisons - Bret Fausett<br>
  <br>
  <strong>Ex- officio</strong><br>
  Bruce Tonkin GNSO Council chair<br>
  <br>
  <br>
</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>GNSO Council 
</strong><br> 
  Bruce Tonkin GNSO Council chair <br>
  Commercial and Business Users constituency - Grant Forsyth   <br>
  Internet 
  Service and Connectivity Providers constituency - Tony Holmes<br>
</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">gTLD Registries constituency - 
Philip Colebrook <br>
Non Commercial Users Constituency - Robin Gross<br>
Non Commercial Users Constituency - Norbert Klein <br>
<br>
 <strong>Observers:<br>
 </strong>Thomas Roessler - W3C - Security Analyst ,(previous ALAC liaison)<br>
</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nominating committee proposed 
appointee - Avri Doria <br>
Geir Rasmussen - CEO Global Name Registry
</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">  </font><font face="Arial, 
Helvetica, sans-serif"><b>ICANN Staff</b>: <br>
  Olof Nordling - Manager of Policy Development Coordination<br>
  Maria Farrell Farrell - GNSO Policy Officer<br>
  Liz Williams - Senior Policy Officer
  <br>
  <br>
  <b>GNSO Secretariat </b>-  Glen 
  de Saint G&eacute;ry <br>
  <br>
  <b>Absent:</b><br>
  Commercial and Business Users constituency - Philip Sheppard - apologies   
<br>
  Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Kyoshi Tsuru - apologies<br>
  Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Lucy Nichols - apologies, 
tried to join by phone   <br>
gTLD Registries constituency - David Maher <b>- </b>absent - apologies<br>
gTLD Registries constituency - Ken Stubbs - absent - apologies </font>  <font 
face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
  Non Commercial Users Constituency 
  - Marc Schneiders - apologies<br>
Non Commercial Users Constituency - Kathy Kleiman - apologies<br>
Nominating committee appointee - Maureen Cubberley - apologies<br>
Nominating committee appointee - Alick Wilson - apologies<br>
  </font> <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><br>
  Suzanne Sene GAC Liaison to GNSO Council -absent - apologies </font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruce 
Tonkin</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> &ndash; 
Started out by commenting that there seemed to be confusion on understanding 
the purpose and concept of whois, and the data elements and access to the data. 
There was a need to distinguish between what data was useful. Public documents 
were different &ndash; e.g. White Pages &ndash; in terms of decision tree, 
first find out what was the meaning of the different data  collected and what 
was it used for &ndash; e.g. technical and administrative contacts. If there 
was to be an opt out, then there is a need to distinguish information types and 
how, for example  law enforcement agents  can access it. Not changing the terms 
of reference but trying to clarify them. </font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jordyn Buchanan 
</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">emphasised that the 
types of data collected had been clarified. &quot;we know what data we&rsquo;re 
collecting, but we&rsquo;re trying to figure out what it&rsquo;s 
for&quot;.</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Bruce Tonkin 
</strong>commented that  the registrars don&rsquo;t even differentiate between 
the different types of data; they keep it simple for the consumers and just 
take their contact details and populate the different contacts with it because 
the consumers don&rsquo;t understand the distinctions.</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">David 
Fares</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> asked whether 
Bruce was asking for different input to the constituency statements, if so more 
time was needed to complete them.</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruce Tonkin, 
</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">looking at the 
issue</font> <font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">from an engineering 
point of view, said the first question was: &quot;what are the decisions to be 
made&quot;. From that  point of view, purpose was the first thing to 
organize.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">David 
Fares</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> commented that 
the task force was  asking another set of questions. The user constituencies 
were being asked how they populated the different contacts and  that 
information was needed before purpose could be contemplated  as it might be 
quite revealing. </font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Milton 
Mueller</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> commented 
that  the constituency comments had been prepared on the basic purpose of Whois 
There was no confusion about the concept of Whois and the data elements and 
access were not confused. Milton was of the opinion that  the comments should 
not  go on for longer. It would be useful to know more about the purpose of 
Whois in context of ICANN's mission but further commenting time was not 
required.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Marilyn Cade</strong>  
expressed a similar view that the task force took from the council that council 
would work in an interactive process with the task force. So suggested doing 
some work and taking in the council time frame &ndash; Jordyn and Maria could 
look at the time frame.and there could be a series of short consultations along 
the way.</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jordyn 
Buchanan</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> commented 
that depending on availability of council members the task force was trying to 
work more on the list and less with calls. But it might be useful once every 
other task force meeting  to have 30 minutes for councilors to join if they 
could. </font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruce 
Tonkin</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> commented that 
another option would be to have the Whois task force chair, Jordyn Buchanan on 
the monthly council call.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Marilyn Cade</strong> 
</font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> did not have a problem with 
that but commented that council had a lot on its plate and that there  might 
not be enough time and not all councilors have action items on Whois.</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jordyn 
Buchanan</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> commented 
that it </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> might be more 
valuable to pull council and task force meetings in different ways depending on 
what was useful.</font></p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruce 
Tonkin</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">  responded 
that there would be no problem with inviting task force members  to a part of 
the council call.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jordyn Buchanan 
</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">referred to the 
constituency statements that have been requested on the purpose of Whois, on 
tasks 1 and 2. and  how the data is populated. He did not believe that going 
back to the constituencies would gain anything at this point. After July 21 
when the statements were due to be submitted he suggested revisiting the issue 
as it could be that the that purpose of Whois for registrant data might be 
different to that of technical contact data  and then there could be further 
discussion.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Milton  Mueller</strong> 
expressed concern that there was a risk of proliferating with different 
purposes and getting to where anyone can use it for anything.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Thomas Roessler </strong> 
commented that it was not  the &lsquo;purpose of the data' but rather the  
purpose of doing something with the data, e.g. collecting, publishing, 
processing, etc. It could be useful to distinguish between the purpose at 
different points in the life cycle of the data.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jordyn 
Buchanan</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">  summarised 
that it was accepted that the collection of the data  but   the display of data 
was the issue. Hopefully, once the constituency statements on the 
recommendation 2 were submitted the next move would be a  preliminary report 
and final stages of the policy development process. After the purpose of the 
Whois and the contact were defined  then there could be a decision if a change 
would be needed in what data was published, and what access there might be to 
it. Accuracy would then be given attention as it was  agreed to settle issues 1 
and 2 before going onto 3. It was agreed that task  4 be deferred  for  short 
time to handle some of the other issues. There was a commitment to revisit it 
after Luxembourg late July or August. Ross  Rader indicated that he would make 
a proposal on accuracy based on the Cape Town discussion unless the  task force 
members felt that it may be easier to drive the accuracy topic to a conclusion 
if the access topic was dealt with.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nicklas 
Lagergren</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> enquired 
whether the  next steps on 3 and 4 would be work in parallel or in 
sequence?</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jordyn 
Buchanan</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> responded 
that the task force had made a   commitment to revisit that issue and were not 
going to stop work on the other topics thus some parallelism was  implied, but  
in the long term it would depend on substantive discussions  on accuracy. We 
may get a stumbling block where we need to work in series.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruce 
Tonkin</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> commented that 
there would be 3 new compliance staff and one of the issues they may look at 
would be modifying the Whois data Problem reporting system. The main challenge 
was finding the WDPRS on the website. To keep the task force focused, there was 
work which could be done with the operations staff on identifying the issues 
experienced in the market place. More data was required on that subject  and 
the WDPRS needed improvement  as it was hard to make additional policy on 
accuracy issues if there was no compliance with the existing 
regulations.</font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Marilyn Cade</strong>  
commented that it was difficult   to find the Whois Data Problem Report System 
(WDPRS) and that people did not use the form but sent  an email to ICANN. She 
questioned how ICANN could gather useful statistics about the kinds of problems 
they were getting when they were getting narrative complaints.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nicklas  Lagergren 
</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">enquired when the  
compliance staff would be on board.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Liz 
Williams</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> commented 
that the issue was  finding properly qualified people and it was moving as 
quickly as possible.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruce Tonkin 
</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">remarked that the 
WDPRS was to be found at InterNIC.net,  however not everyone knew that, and 
most people went to the registrar.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jordyn 
Buchanan</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> suggested  
having a group of people that could look at interpretation or implementation of 
the existing compliance policy.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bruce 
Tonkin</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> commented that 
it referred to the Sunday discussion where the need was identified to have a 
closer relationship with the ICANN operations staff. There were reports from 
the operational staff but it was not a two way communication. There should be a 
designated operations staff person on Whois. It was suggested that 
<strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nicklas 
Lagergren</font></strong>   chair a meeting on that topic.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Action:<br>
  Niklas Lagergren proposed as chair for a group on Whois policies related to 
accuracy<br>
  WDRP and WDPRS 
</font></strong><br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Co-ordinate with Bruce Tonkin 
and ICANN staff, Maria Farrell and Liz Williams
<br>
<br>
 </strong>It was suggested that the group provide information and raise 
awareness of the issues through best practices and if it were to be a mechanism 
for collecting and reporting, then thought should be given on how  to use the 
information obtained. </font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ross 
Rader</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> commented that  
it was Whois server operators that dealt with this in the gTLD space.</font></p>
<p><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Jordyn 
Buchanan</font></strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> proposed 
that the task force members </font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">  
familiarize themselves with<br>
  Thomas Roessler's<a 
href="http://www.gnso.icann.org/mailing-lists/archives/dow1-2tf/msg00125.html";> 
PKI-based authentication mechanism for tiered access to WHOIS <br>
  </a>for the next task force call. <br>
    <strong>Bruce Tonkin </strong>reported that John Jeffrey had been asked to 
provide appropriate legal language for recommendation 2 </font></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong><font face="Arial, 
Helvetica, sans-serif">Action:<br>
Niklas Lagergren proposed as chair for a group on Whois policies related to 
accuracy<br>
(WDRP and WDPRS)</font></strong><br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Co-ordinate with Bruce Tonkin 
and ICANN staff, Maria Farrell and Liz Williams </strong></font></font> </p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Next 
Call</strong></font><strong>:</strong></p>
<p><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Tiered Access</strong><br>
</font><strong><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">26 July 2005 9:30 EST, 
13:30 UTC  </font></strong></p>
<p> </p>
<p>&nbsp; </p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>