WHOIS Task Force 1 Teleconference January 13, 2004 - Minutes

ATTENDEES:

GNSO Constituency representatives:
gTLD Registries constituency: - Jeff Neuman - Chair
gTLD Registries constituency - David Maher (alternate)
Commercial and Business Users constituency - David Fares
Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - Jeremy Banks
Internet Service and Connectivity Providers constituency: - Antonio Harris
Registrars Constituency - Elana Broitman (alternate)
Registrars Constituency - Paul Stahura (speaker)
Non Commercial Users Constituenc - Milton Mueller

Liaisons:
At-Large Advisory Committee (ALAC) liaisons - Thomas Roessler
GNSO Secretariat: Glen de Saint Géry

Absent:
Intellectual Property Interests Constituency - John Wolfe (alternate)
Commercial and Business Users constituency - Marilyn Cade (alternate)
ICANN Staff Manager: Barbara Roseman

Administration
Paul Stahura, seconded by David Fares proposed adopting the minutes of the January 6 teleconference.
Minutes adopted.

Documents circulated:
Jeff Neuman referred to the latest list of Non Marketing use contacts for WHOIS data that he sent to the Task Force 1 mailing list.
The letter would go to all constituencies and the goal in sending to the non marketing use contacts was to cover all contacts that had not been covered by the constituencies.

Jeff Neuman mentioned posting, the FTC document (US Federal Trade Commission hearing) February 2003,which sets out their use of WHOIS data and suggested that the document could either be incorporated in the report, or the presenters could be sent the same set of task force questions.

Milton Mueller raised a question concerning the premise of the survey and requested clarification on the purpose of the questionnaire. He understood that the questions were to find out how much use was being made of WHOIS data and how much of a load it put on the Registry. However, it appeared that the survey was trying to distinguish between legitimate and illegitimate (marketing users) of WHOIS data and
it was questionable whether the survey really allowed for that.

Jeff Neuman stated that the purpose of the survey was to find out non marketing uses of WHOIS data. Certain groups have been identified as using WHOIS data for non marketing purposes, either through port 43, the web based access or bulk access, but whether they use it for marketing or non marketing purposes is irrelevant. The question is "Why do you need it ? What are the needs? Are these needs justified? How do you get it?
With the collected data an assessment could be made whether the needs and justifications are legitimate, whether port 43 or web base or both are needed to access. Thus the needs and justification chart was important at this stage.
Milton Mueller further commented that it was unclear how the next stage of evaluating the justifications would be reached, how the marketing uses could be shut off without effecting the non-marketing users thus the open ended question 7
7) In your own words, please provide a brief justification of your usage of the Whois data. Whois provides anonymous public access to individual users' contact data and to registrars' customer lists. Why do you feel that your usage and purposes warrant access to this data?
Additional questions:
8) If you could not use Port 43 Whois data what would you use as the closest substitute?
9) Is the most important factor justifying your access to whois data: a) cost b) convenience of immediate online access c) no other way to get the needed data

Jeff Neuman stated that groups could be added to those to which the letter would be sent during the week 13/16 January, as long as information could be obtained before the deadline, 2 weeks from the letter being sent out. The administrative items in sending out the letter would be discussed.

Tony Harris suggested sending the letter to the registrars asking them to send it to the purchasers of the bulk data.
Discussion indicated the following points of view:
Thomas Roessler felt that it was unnecessary.
Paul Stahura commented from Enom's position that the quality of bulk access purchasers were not so big and it would not swamp all users.
Jeremy Banks and David Fares were in favour of obtaining as much information as possible, but the latter added that the task force should however limit the analysis of the data gathered to the terms of reference.
There was general agreement that the registrars would be asked to send the questions out to their bulk users and /or if they knew of anyone that used port 43, to send to them as well.
There was general agreement that law enforcement bodies should be approached as well as target law enforcement from non developed countries.
Tony Harris suggested reaching out to the Latin American Law enforcement community.

The letter
Paul Stahura commented that the questions were aimed the use of port 43, how it was being obtained from the source and how the source was acting.
From: ICANN Whois Taskforce 1
Re: Your need for Whois information
To: [contact]

Dear [contact]

We're from ICANN and we're here to help you. ;-)
We are members of an ICANN Task Force investigating the use of Whois for data mining. To help the task force develop policy recommendations about access to Whois data, we are gathering information from organizations such as yours that we understand are using or have used Whois information for various purposes.

Because your business or activities could be affected by our recommendations, we encourage you to take a few moments to answer the questions below. Your input will be greatly appreciated. Your submissions will not be shared beyond the members of this task force.

Please note that all questions pertain only to whois information which is the name, email, street address, phone and other information about the registrant, and the other contacts, of the domain name), and not to zone file information which is the list of all domain names (with each name's name servers) registered at the registry.

1) How do you obtain the Whois information?
a. Via port-43
b. Via the Web
c. Via bulk access licenses with ICANN accredited registrars. If the licenses are not obtained from accredited registrars, please specify the type of entity: _______________________________________
d. Other/I don't know

2) From whom do you obtain the Whois information?
a. Directly, from either a registrar or a registry
b. Indirectly (please specify the entity)
c. I don't know

3) How do you disseminate the obtained Whois information (possibly compiled, aggregated or combined with other information)?
a. Via port-43 (for example if you proxy/aggregate Whois data from a number of sources and provide a port-43 feed to the public)
b. Via the web (for example, by displaying reports, or a web-based Whois query interface)
c. Both a) and b)
d. It is not disseminated at all (for example, it is used internally)

e. Other. Please specify method: ______________________________

4) Approximately how many Whois queries/lookups do you perform on average per day?
a. Less than 10
b. 10-100
c. 100-1000
d. More than 1000
e. It varies too much to select the other options: some days it is many (say, over 1000) and some days none
f. I don't know

5) Do you store the Whois information?
a. Not at all
b. I cache queries for a short period (less than a week)
c. I store it for longer periods such as more than a week (for example, if you obtain bulk Whois, you probably do this)

6) Please indicate the general purposes of your use of Whois data (you may select more than one item - choose as many as apply)
a. To facilitate law enforcement by public authorities
b. To facilitate intellectual property enforcement by trademark/copyright holders
c. To obtain marketing data, for direct use or resale
d. For inter-registrar domain name transfers
e. To facilitate spam prevention
f. To operate a public information service
g. Statistical research on domain registrations, Internet users, etc.
h. Other: ___________________________________

7) In your own words, please provide a brief justification of your usage of the Whois data. Whois provides anonymous public access to individual users' contact data and to registrars' customer lists. Why do you feel that your usage and purposes warrant access to this data?

Thank you very much for your time and participation.

Regards,

ICANN Whois Taskforce 1

Discussion:

Jeff Neuman suggested redoing the introduction, adding a url to ICANN, "Data mining" should not be mentioned.
Deadline for draft Thursday 15 January

In the question order, easy questions should be put first.
Question1:
Thomas Roessler suggested adding in question 1 :
Please choose those applicable
As well as adding some definition of port 43 and explaining web based
Suggested language was requested from the group.

Question 2
2) From whom do you obtain the Whois information?
a. Directly, from either a registrar or a registry
b. Indirectly (please specify the entity)
c. I don't know
It was suggested that it should be a yes/no question

What people are doing are with the data is understood but how they get it is not always understood.

Question 3
3) How do you disseminate the obtained Whois information (possibly compiled, aggregated or combined with other information)?
a. Via port-43 (for example if you proxy/aggregate Whois data from a number of sources and provide a port-43 feed to the public)
b. Via the web (for example, by displaying reports, or a web-based Whois query interface)
c. Both a) and b)
d. It is not disseminated at all (for example, it is used internally)
Suggested striking (c)
Breaking the question up into different questions

Change to several questions:
3.) Do you disseminate the information?
4.) If so how do you disseminate this information?

Trying to find out how many are acting as proxies, but the question 4. should be made more specific.

Do you make the information available? Do you make individual entries available? Do you make a significant portion of the data available? What channels do you make it available through etc. port 43, web based, down load.

Jeff Neuman suggested that people comment on the mailing list.

Change to question 6
Approximately how many Whois queries/lookups do you perform on average per day?
a. Less than 10
b. 10-100
c. 100-1000
d. More than 1000
e. It varies too much to select the other options: some days it is many (say, over 1000) and some days none
f. I don't know

The purpose was to find out if high mining access was happening

Change the numbering to 7
Do you store the Whois information?
a. Not at all
b. I cache queries for a short period (less than a week)
c. I store it for longer periods such as more than a week (for example, if you obtain bulk Whois, you probably do this)

Thomas suggested added "routinely" and (c) should be left open

Change numbering to 8
6) Please indicate the general purposes of your use of Whois data (you may select more than one item - choose as many as apply)
a. To facilitate law enforcement by public authorities
b. To facilitate intellectual property enforcement by trademark/copyright holders
c. To obtain marketing data, for direct use or resale
d. For inter-registrar domain name transfers
e. To facilitate spam prevention
f. To operate a public information service
g. Statistical research on domain registrations, Internet users, etc.
h. Other: ___________________________________

Jeremy Banks suggested adding in (b): trade mark /copyright holders or their designated representatives
Should perhaps add another category, purpose, for resale of WHOIS information.
Accurate answer for parties that do not facilitate, would be "sell"

Suggested for (b) For development of products or services that facilitate intellectual property enforcement...

(c) should be used a cross check and retain only "marketing"

7) In your own words, please provide a brief justification of your usage of the Whois data. Whois provides anonymous public access to individual users' contact data and to registrars' customer lists. Why do you feel that your usage and purposes warrant access to this data?
Jeff Neuman questioned the value of the question

Additional question:

If you could not use port 43 access what would you use as the closest substitute?

Is the most important factor in getting WHOIS data
a) costs
b) convenience
c) no other way to get data

Next Call January 20, 2004

Suggested language changes should be made to the questions via the mailing list.
Circulate the draft once the changes have been made
The questions should be sent out by the end of the week, Friday 16 January.
Coordination of all dissemination of information through ICANN Staff.

Needs and justification chart to be discussed on next call.

Jeff Neuman thanked everyone for their presence and participation and ended the call at 17:35 UTC.

Next call: Tuesday 20 January 2004, 16:00 UTC, 11:00 EST, 8:00 Los Angeles, 17:00 CET.